In this episode of The Glo Podcast, guest host Kia Miller and her mentor, renowned yoga teacher Annie Carpenter, discuss Annie’s yoga journey, the importance of inner awareness, and the challenges and adaptations in yoga practice post-pandemic. They explore the significance of community, the evolution of personal yoga practices, and how being present and finding balance can lead to a transformative spiritual engagement.
In this extended conversation for The Glo Podcast, Glo teachers Annie Carpenter and Kia Miller discuss their journeys through the energy of the asana poses to the subtle energetic shifts the poses bring about.
Kia and Annie emphasize why a safe and sacred space is important to create in yoga classes, where students can pursue an investigation into and questioning of the self. Both Annie and Kia talk about how their yoga practices have evolved over time. During Kia’s thoughtful line of questions, Annie discusses being present, finding balance, and witnessing life as a form of spiritual engagement.
They also discuss the power of pranayama as a tool for observation and finding stillness. Annie is one of Kia’s mentors, so the conversation naturally flows into the topic of mentorship.
The episode ends with expressions of gratitude and admiration between Kia and Annie, encapsulating the essence of their teacher-student relationship and the enduring impact of their shared yoga journey.
00:00 introducing Annie Carpenter
03:57 the importance of subtlety in yoga
08:40 yoga as a quieting practice
24:14 living in continuums and finding balance
27:03 the role of yoga studios and community
30:49 the dance of surrender: allowing life to unfold
35:04 the power of pranayama: observing and finding stillness
41:46 self-trust and resilience: keys to a strong yoga practice
45:38 mentorship and assisting: deepening understanding and growth
47:27 in-person trainings: community and hands-on learning
49:45 the evolution of practice: finding meaning and simplicity
53:29 witnessing and presence: connecting with self and the world
Annie Carpenter’s SmartFlow Yoga Teacher Training.
COLD OPEN
[00:00:00] Annie Carpenter: When the body is safe and strong enough to have a full witnessing, my whole being can witness, can be present to exactly what's happening in this moment, whether that's nature or whether that's me on my mat or on my cushion, that's meaningful. That to me is living the truth. Because it invites me to witness not just my own truth, even as it evolves, but also the truth of life itself in the world around me.
And that, I believe, is why I do yoga.
INTRODUCTION
[00:00:43] Derik Mills: Hi, I'm Derik Mills. Welcome to the Glo podcast. The paths of our many wonderful Glo teachers tend to cross quite a bit over time. In today's conversation, you'll learn that Annie Carpenter mentored Kia Miller through her teacher training and encouraged Kia to include kundalini yoga practices into her vinyasa classes.
On a personal note, when I first took Kia's class in person roughly 15 years ago, it was her skillful intertwining of the two among her many other gifts. That really drew me to her classes. In this episode, Kia asks Annie about the value in a yoga practice of trusting yourself and cultivating resilience.
They discuss the importance of surrendering to the moment. You'll learn why they both feel that it's vital for yoga to hold space for students that is both safe and sacred, so students can feel they can explore the self openly. I hope you enjoyed this conversation between Kia Miller and Annie Carpenter.
BEGIN INTERVIEW
[00:01:48] Kia Miller: Hi, welcome to the Globe Podcast. My name's Kia Miller. I'm a guest host for this episode. a grateful guest host and my, interviewee, my guest, my, actually my teacher is Annie Carpenter. And, I'm so thrilled for this opportunity to have a conversation with you, Annie. for those of you who don't know Annie, she is one of the most extraordinary yoga teachers in the world today.
I feel I can safely say that. She, has her own yoga school, Smart Flow Yoga, and she comes from a very rich background of yoga. body awareness of dance, of teaching dance, of practicing and teaching yoga for, I don't know, 30, probably 40 years, Annie, right? So welcome. I'm so happy to have this conversation with you.
[00:02:46] Annie Carpenter: Kia, it is so lovely to connect with you. Just my pleasure.
[00:02:50] Kia Miller: Ah, so Annie, first of all, I'd like our topic today to focus around the idea of, gross to subtle. the, the main goal of yoga being that journey from finite self, we could say, personal identity, small self identity, to, to our greater self, to greater awareness, to infinity, however we want to see that.
And that always seems like such a large definition of yoga, and yet it feels so relevant in this We as, practitioners really understand the full scope of what yoga is. And in my years of studying with you, being mentored by you, I really always felt your understanding of this journey from gross to subtle.
So I'd love for us to get into that topic. But before we go there, maybe you could just give a very brief, share on your first introduction to yoga coming from, the Martha Graham Dance Company, where you so clearly were deeply into your body and, the capacities of your body.
[00:04:19] Annie Carpenter: Thanks, Kia. actually, I did start yoga even before I got to New York when I was a teenager, and, I'm sorry if some of you have heard this story, but I was having a little bit of overusage of marijuana and similar products in my teenage years, and, my mom sent me to this subtle rehab program. It was just after school, and on Thursday afternoons, we had yoga class.
Thanks, Kia. I think I was 16. And, I tell you I was already dancing clearly, but, I, it was the Shavasana, kriyā, that, that, took me. Because the movement of yoga at that point in my life was, in a word, small and simple and, fun and nice, but it wasn't a, it didn't wake my mind up in any particular way.
But the Shavasana, the deep rest, The quality of feeling really safe inside, the quality of, Oh, the answer is to your topic today, kriyā, the answer is subtlety. It was the dropping in, the not needing to make something big or not needing to make something right. That was this huge nervous system drop for me.
And, I think we're probably only in six or seven minutes and I will never forget that. My very first Shavasana. So, that was the intro. That was the hook. Oddly, I think most people, it's not Shavasana, but for me it is and still continues to be, as some of us say, the most important pose, right?
and then later years when I was in New York, Practicing and teaching and dancing at the Graham Center. I would go home in the West Village, which was very close to the Integral Yoga Institute, and Swami Satchitananda was still there. And I don't know if you know that practice, but it's very soft and quiet, and there's a lot of pranayama, and a lot of meditation, and a lot of community, all the vegetarians coming together like old hippies, and so, it, has, from its inception, yoga has been the quieting practice in my life, as opposed to, let's do handstands! it's the opposite of that for me.
[00:06:37] Kia Miller: Wow. I just love that, Annie. And I love that because, in your classes, you've always had this capacity to inspire both. You can really inspire practitioners to reach for that handstand, and to reach for that glorious backbend, and then obviously speak to the subtle because of your own experience of it.
So perhaps we could, you could share a little bit on this idea of using the physical postures as a methodology to access subtlety for those, who perhaps, When they reach their Shavasana, they're still in the racing mind place. They're still planning, when to get up, or maybe they're trying to skip it altogether, maybe you could speak to that.
[00:07:29] Annie Carpenter: Yeah, and mind you, I've had those days. Wait, I got shit to go! Shit to do, I need to go! So I get that, and on good days, for me, the, asana practice is just a, gateway, technique of, learning how to focus and learning how to have, it's that.
bridge between Dharana and Dhyana in the sort of classical yoga world of learning how to focus on one thing and, learning how to keep the focus steady as you shift to the next thing and start to connect the dots. And can the mind stay focused even as you're moving through a flow and, being a mover from, a child.
I love to flow. I love to move. And I do love to work hard in my body and make you too.
But I feel like it's that ongoing, it's like focusing a microscope, the microscope of the mind, of the quality of attention we can bring. And Eventually, when we are comfortable in the body, that can go more and more subtle, not just can you press the inner border of the big toe, but can you recognize how the ego is, taking your mind over here and not keeping you present?
Can you recognize when the memories of what this pose was like? Like for me, when I was doing this pose when I was 20 and now in my late 60s, if those memories cloud, it's a fog. So that, that presencing, I like to call it, quality that asana can teach us. And again, asana is not the end point, as Kriya.
Asana is just one of the things we do to stay present and to connect with community and connect to inner self, all those things. But it is, I think for many of us today, and maybe more so than say 200 years ago, it, really is a great trail. Okay, this way to the top, this way to the vista, right?
I think asana for many of us is this way to the vista, and yet the vista here is looking in, not out. out of the, the view outside, but the view inside. Yeah. So I think that's the pathway.
[00:09:53] Kia Miller: I just love that. And I just, and I remember, I remember for myself when I came to your class, I'd been doing a shangha for actually quite a long time.
and, I had asked Chuck [Miller] and Maty [Ezraty], I'd asked Maty after doing the 200 hour, And they were leaving, where do I go now? And they said, oh, Bhati said, go, study with Annie. And I remember coming to your class, and it was a level one, two. And, it was strong and it was captivating.
And, I needed that back then and I think so many of us need that. We need to feel captivated in the practice. We need to feel invested in what we can do with our physical bodies and we need to feel that progression of being able to, Beginners at something but then, start to advance and reach new heights within the physical practice.
So that for me was so important under your guidance. And the way that you have, a capacity to command our attention with the detail. The way you weave it in your smart flow classes is, different details in every class. So I'm, I was always learning and it was such a rich experience and it definitely allowed me the opportunity to to firmly ground and feel at home in my body, which I think I, hadn't.
I started through the Astanga practice, but to feel at home and safe in my body was one of the gifts that I gained, in my beginning years with you as a practitioner. And then, going along the teacher training track with you, I think that was really my first deep dive into. yogic philosophy.
And that's where you lit up this fire in me for yogic philosophy. And, and seeing all of the ways that, that the philosophy helps to guide our mind and energy into these subtle places. So perhaps we can speak a little bit to that idea. What does yogic philosophy say about this journey from gross to subtle?
[00:12:35] Annie Carpenter: I have to first say that I love the word investment that you use. And, boy, if I had any help in sparking that in you, I'm delighted. if I was any help, because I think investment is a really good word. I think that as teachers of anything, whether a teacher of dance, a teacher of mathematics, a teacher of yoga, I think we're all trying to find something to spark the students investment in whatever it is, whether it's just learning a form in the body, whether it's learning a new pranayama, sequence, whether it's, understanding on a level that we might call philosophical, whether that's, starts intellectual, which I think it often does before it kind of lands and matures in the spiritual realm.
I, just thank you for that word. I don't think I've ever used that word, like when I lead trainings that, and I think that's just a beautiful word, that I do think that, without using that word, I've, always hoped that I'm creating your investment, you, not just Ukiah, but the students investment.
And when that hook is set, then anything is possible. And just to be clear, as much as I do love philosophy, all levels of philosophy, at least as far as I understand at this point, I don't think it's necessary to be a spiritual yogi. I don't think we need to have all the texts at the tip of our tongue, Or even have studied classical yoga versus Upanishadic periods.
I love that stuff. And so do you, but I think it's, I think there's a lot of people at this point in their lives that it feels overwhelming or I don't care. the, karma yogis who just want to do and feel, or the bhaktis who just want to feel the love and express the connection.
So I, just want to start this. Knowing that I love philosophy by saying, we all have our own way. And, I think it's just as important for us as teachers to understand the philosophy in a way that we communicate it as sort of day to day stuff. Oh, what's the distraction today? just using the simplest words, what, are you yearning for?
What's the lack that's driving you away from this present moment? the, those ideas. So again, I'm, I'll geek out with you all day on this philosophy, but, I don't know. I think that it, I've been in some workshops and trainings over the years where I felt like it was a membership club. And luckily I was given an okay to come in the door, but I don't think everyone feels that.
[00:15:33] Kia Miller: Does that make sense? Oh gosh, yes, it does. It really does. And I, agree with you and And it's so true, it's like a, it's like a worldview, it's a, it's, that we have when we dive into yogic philosophy, and yet, as we know, the real measure is how do we bring that truth. knowledge of self in relationship to, self, greater self to other, to the universe, to the whole.
how do we bring that into our daily lives? And what does that even look like? Because I always remember that feeling, leaving a class and having that Shavasana, that deep Shavasana, or even not so deep Shavasana, but leaving the class, feeling taller, feeling more free. and karma, and driving home, and being undisturbed by other people, by other drivers, by a long light, by all the things that might otherwise disturb and create anxiety within me.
Just not having that. And the more that happened, for sure, the more I could carry that sense of calmness into my other activities in life. And in the sense of the subtlety, it was that subtlety of just feeling another level of at-homeness in myself that I wasn't being so impacted by life around me.
I appreciate that reflection on, yes, how was it relevant for us as everyday people walking through this world with jobs and families? Thanks.
[00:17:27] Annie Carpenter: And the politics of today. let's not go down that road. yeah, a hundred percent. and what has been interesting for me over the years is to land on the different, I don't know what the right word is.
I'm going to just say styles of yogic philosophy and finally find the sort of period, if you will, or focus. I do really love the Upanishads. And, I think the reason I do is because there's that mysterious. Almost like Sufism, it is an experience and there are predictable paths, but it, it's, not so rule based.
It's not so we'll do number one before you do number two. And I just think it invites us. to, close our eyes and feel, and to, close our ears and listen. And, just relying on these senses that we need to use, 22 hours of the day to say, Oh, and, to see other creatures that use different senses in the world.
it's just, I feel like, I, was blind and now I see that, that kind of thing. any of the philosophical paths that invite us to turn our world upside down, do a headstand for three days, see, what you find out. this is the stuff that's interesting for me. our culture is so thick and for most of us, the family lives so entrenched in, a tradition that may indeed have turned us into decent human beings.
but I don't know about you, but my, the tra traditions I grew up in, were not about knowing that these traditions that we lived every day. were actually just a costume, that had nothing to do with what life is really about, had nothing to do with understanding truth, had nothing to do with, really loving one's neighbor.
And when I say neighbor, one's neighbor, but also, the, raccoon that comes across the yard and all the birds and all, all the, redwoods, the young ones and the old ones. I was not invited into that way of sensing the world of feeling like I was part of that greatness, that eternal spirit.
and now I know that truth, but I don't think my culture that I grew up in and my family traditions pointed in that direction at all. And I really needed to find a different way, to, in a, word, turn away from it and be open, in order to open to something else, and that's hard for us. I think, I don't think I'm alone in that.
It's the comfort of tradition, the comfort of this culture that has been such a great culture, in so many ways, and yet finally going, this isn't it, this isn't it. know to that. All this does is promote ego. All this does is promote this is me and that is you and separation and division, instead of looking for the sameness, the oneness, the miracle, that is in all living beings.
I don't know. Is that philosophy? I'm not sure.
[00:21:02] Kia Miller: That's the deepest right there. That's the deepest and it's like the, experience really precedes everything else perhaps, because how do we know that there's something else until we've experienced it? I guess that's where yogic philosophy comes in, it can point the way.
That's where a teacher comes in, they can point the way. and alert us to the idea that there's more to what than what we're just seeing. Alert us to the idea that we can be more than perhaps we think we are, not from the egoic level, but just from the experience of life, the richness, the fullness, the wonderment of life that's possible when we begin to break free from the conditioning that you are speaking to.
[00:21:58] Annie Carpenter: Yeah, in fact, I might add that it's not that we can be more, it's that we already are, but we don't feel it, we don't recognize it, we don't allow it to express fully. So again, it's like taking the clothes off, and letting the naked true self shine.
[00:22:16] Kia Miller: Yes. Yes. That's so powerful right there. So when people are coming to class, let, people that you're meeting these days, this sort of post pandemic world, what do you see are the biggest challenges they face?
As they're coming in through the door, like what are you seeing and what do you feel is the most effective way for them to move, into this place of peace that we're speaking to?
[00:22:51] Annie Carpenter: Yeah, that's a really good question, Kiyo. I, think it's getting better than what was it? It's been almost two years now, since I've been back in studios.
there is a quality of not quite the right word, but mistrust of unease, dis ease. Not disease, but, unrest. and, you, feel it. Someone in the room starts coughing and everyone, you can just feel everybody's muscles still tighten up, I, think what I've been, emphasizing, and sometimes I wonder if I emphasize it too much.
Is everybody finding their own way, that your way is indeed the right way, and that way, guess what, it's going to change again tomorrow and the next day. and feeling safe in one's own path, and, letting it be okay if you feel a little lost or unsure. it's interesting, I, in my classes these days up here in Oakland, I literally today this morning I taught and I had, three women past 70.
I had four or five, three or four people younger than 30, and everything in between. And it is, for me, so beautiful to see a community of all ages. and, so I think the task for the teacher trying to make all ages comfortable in basically the same path is similar to making anyone feel comfortable after something that had us all scared almost to death, to even look in someone else's eye, And, you know me, I love humor.
I use humor. I, still think, and I, will probably always think that's a good thing. And I think that is a way to break, the tension of, wait, is this safe? This is a new person and she's coughing, that stuff. the, balance of, 100 percent depth and, lightheartedness. I just don't think there's anything better than that.
you know me, Kriya, I like to work continual, continuums, and, really let people find out how far they want to go in one direction, as long as they know how to get back home, go the opposite direction. And I mean that physically, but I also mean that emotionally, I also mean that spiritually. Sometimes you just have to land and get yourself, home quickly to look after Grandma.
That's not a spiritual path, that's get in the car and drive. that we live in these continuums and we find ways to learn from the, if you will, light filled end of the continuums, and try to bring as much of that into the day to day. pick up the, prescription for grandma at the drugstore stuff.
[00:26:08] Kia Miller: To me, as you're speaking, I'm just feeling, how yoga studios, at least, throughout my period of going to them, that the yoga classroom was always a safe place. a place to go and really be able to do the big exhale and know that I was going to be taken care of in that class. And, and therefore there was a freedom for self investigation within the practice.
And that's something that I always experienced in your classes, that freedom of, that place of safety and then the subtle encouragement of the reflection, so I could know the way back to balance if I went all the way to one end or the other in whatever scope that was happening. And in today's world.
There's less yoga studios happening and less of this community resource that I think fed me so much, at least, in the formative years where I really was accessing a spiritual identity versus, all of the masks I was used to wearing in my life. But actually, that spiritual identity of building my own self trust, self confidence, and the experiences that were coming from that.
And it came from this, it came from community, as you were saying, that community, where it doesn't matter what the person has to do right afterwards, or what they were doing before, there's that chunk of time that's just special. You're there, you're held, you're going through an experience, and at the end of it, you're going to be notably different than when you began.
And that seems so, so very precious to me, and not so readily available. post pandemic. but all of you out there who are doing yoga online, which I think is fantastic also, it's so great to pop into a studio and be in this conscious contact with other human beings and feel the rhythm of breath and to feel that safety and self investigation process.
So I really felt that when you were talking, Annie.
[00:28:51] Annie Carpenter: what you just said about, not knowing or caring what happens before or after what the, what, I'm doing. I think that's a really sweet thing for, young teachers and you and me even to be reminded of. it is a sacred space because we are not the student.
That we are not. needing to be the psychotherapist or the rocket scientist or the mom or the debt, whatever the roles are in the regular world, it doesn't matter. And, I, it is fun when I do find out five years later, Oh, really, that's what you do. That's fun for me, but I think not knowing, or at least not bringing that into the class.
Letting them be their, truest self, which is independent of, I teach high school or all the things that we, do, to make a living and to take care of the home and all of that, I, just think that's such a gift. I remember I used to have this discussion when I do a sort of ethics communication skills, workshop and, is it okay to be friends with your students?
And I have always leaned, you've probably heard me talk about this, I've always leaned, probably not, and I hadn't really put that together with it, in the, words that you just used, Kriya, and it's, a piece of it. I think it is freeing to be in a community and be deeply seen, deeply challenged, deeply encouraged in all the ways by the teacher and to be seen by all these other people and loved.
But not know who you are, not need to say, Oh, how's work going? Or even, anything else about the life. I love that because it invites, as you say, it invited you to find your spiritual self. It invites us to forgive and forget all that other stuff and be. The truth of us, not have to bring the suit and the tie and the briefcase or wherever your stuff is, and even for yoga teachers.
is to not feel like I have to be a yoga teacher in this class. I'm just practicing just like you.
[00:31:13] Kia Miller: That's right.
[00:31:14] Annie Carpenter: Yeah, that is, I think, a big key to feeling safe, to not have to bring all the other stuff in.
[00:31:21] Kia Miller: I love it. And as you were speaking, I was feeling, I was feeling into the class.
And of course, the breath, within the yogic practices being the key of that coming home to self as the breath. breath, so the mind as the mind, so the breath, so shifting our focus to breath and shifting into the physical body. As somebody who used to dissociate a lot in my younger life, just getting in my body is so important, and I find that for so many people.
We get so ungrounded in the busyness, in the technology of life in the outward movement of life and we leave the body behind a little bit or we go to exercise the body and it's very goal driven and we have that mentality as we're exercising the body and when I step into a yoga class and I don't know what's coming next it's not in my control.
All I get to do is show up to the very best of my ability in that moment. I get to test myself. I'm not driving the experience, from an idea of what it is I should be doing. It's that surrender to what is unfolding. And to me that, that's like the dance of life that I love the most. I want to get myself into a state of being where I can just surrender and allow life to be unfolding and not controlling and manipulating from, from any fear based thinking, whether it's fear of how I look or am I going to be fit enough or do I need this, do I need that?
No, I just show up and there's this masterful guidance happening and I surrender to it. To me, that's also the joy of a yoga practice. versus, gym practice, great, everything has its benefits. but there's that, that, we get to do.
[00:33:26] Annie Carpenter: That, that being almost out of control in the sense of not knowing what's coming.
And that being okay.
[00:33:33] Kia Miller: Yes, exactly, Surprise me. Yes, exactly, the mind is not controlling, it's not premeditated. All we can do in that is to stay in the present moment and witness ourself in the present moment and how we're handling it. yeah, absolutely. Love that. Love that.
so I always remember when I started to do Kundalini yoga, you'd been mentoring me for some time and we were, you were mentoring me through the teacher training track to become a teacher trainer. which was an extraordinary phase of my life. And I remember at some point along there, you knew I was doing a lot of kundalini yoga and how, meaningful it was for me.
And I remember you saying to me, why don't you put some of that kundalini in your class?
And that was the spark that went off. And I was like, Oh, isn't that a good idea? Oh, I can bring more breath work. I can bring a different awareness of subtlety into my vinyasa practices. Oh, I can offer different pranayamas and meditations before or after. It was just one of those light bulb moments for me. That makes me so happy.
[00:35:07] Kia Miller: Yes. And then telling me, go out, do it, do your own training, do it. I always do that too. that was the nudge that I needed. It's interesting how so many of us, we need that. it's like the affirmation from somebody you trust really allows you to have the confidence to take the step, to do it, to, move, to move forward, to face fear, whatever that is. I just wanted to thank you for that, as we're here in this discussion. you started teaching a lot of pranayama in your, days in Los Angeles before you moved north. Can you speak to me a little bit about that experience? I think you were one of the first teachers within the Vinyasa studios who was really doing that and inviting people into a different space.
[00:36:04] Annie Carpenter: at, when I was at, Integral Yoga with Swami Satchinananda, this is early 80s, there again, that practice was mostly pranayama. And so I would say the way I teach pranayama is more influenced by that. I've also studied with some good pranayama teachers in the system. including Lisa Walford.
but, I think I've been more influenced by the integral yoga. and, I think the reason why I love it is that pranayama for me is a very clear path, or if you will, even a light towards, meditation. And, I, in my young life as a, yogi, all the way up into probably late thirties, I wasn't very good at sitting still.
I just want to keep moving. And, and it was the sitting and the pranayama of finding the inner movement of the breath. that helped my outer body and my mind be comfortable in stillness. So it was a very powerful bridge, for me from loving, asana and okay, a little breath on the side, into, having a breathing practice who still for me today, most of the times when I sit, I do Even five minutes of breathing just to get me into comfort, into stillness.
Almost every time I sit, it's just part of my routine. and so I, I think I do pranayama not to do pranayama, but to, feel what's happening in there and find ways that I can calm and quiet something or activate and awaken something else, as needed. So, I don't choose a sequence for my pranayama in the mornings.
I, I let the first, If you will witnessing of the breath, tell me what, I need energetically and possibly mentally as well. and so my goal in pranayama is not to do good pranayama or to learn all the techniques, but rather to balance the system of energy. And thus, quiet the mind perhaps a little bit, or settle the mind a little bit, maybe is a better way of saying it.
So while I do love all the different forms of pranayama, and I've tried I think at least most of them over the years, my goal is to get as simple as possible with the breath, so it's more of a witnessing, observational, practice. practice than it is, let me see if I can get to eight, four, eight, sixteen, or, all the different patterns and ratios, which again are fun, and I think we should all experience them.
But I know in my own practice, and over time as I teach teachers how to teach pranayama, I think it's, greatest power is as a tool of observation.
[00:39:00] Kia Miller: Wow, I love that, Annie. I just love that so much. It's bringing it right back to the, subtle, because I think the ego mind wants to chase the challenge and then the next, the next complicated technique and to try to, measure ourselves up against the technique.
And I think that can definitely be a trap and unhelpful. and there, it is, just the idea of coming into subtle presence and the breath helping you to come into that place. of awareness.
[00:39:38] Annie Carpenter: A hundred percent. And to get back to that idea of during the pandemic, I remember, my, my pranayama practice during the pandemic, I, couldn't even start even a very slow kapalabhati, cause my nervous system was so already jacked that I just found myself doing, one, two, three.
A little bit of voluma too, and then back to plain ujjayi and then sit. Because I just, anything that upped my energy, I could feel it wasn't just awakening, it was jacking my nervous system because the nerves, my nervous system was already, and, so that really taught me that, the, real power for me, and there are lots of different reasons and different times in one's life, certainly to do different types of pranayama. But for me, it really is one of the great observational tools that we have.
[00:40:31] Kia Miller: I love that. So as somebody who's coming into pranayama freshly, what is the like most effective, simple technique you would share with them?
[00:40:41] Annie Carpenter: I always start by, getting comfortable in the seat or even lying down if you need to. But I always start with three minutes of simply witnessing the breath as it is. And then either three part breath or straight into ujjayi if you're already comfortable with that. And then maybe a couple of pauses in the ujjayi. inhale halfway, inhale all the way. Couple of those, go back to straight ujjayi, and then three to twenty minutes of witnessing.
That's pranayama for me.
[00:41:13] Kia Miller: Love that. Love that. Love that. that is it, isn't it? That's where we get to, when you say witnessing, that's it. We get to witness the, movement of the mind.
[00:41:27] Annie Carpenter: And we get to witness hopefully, the truest, if you will, the true self, and how all the other stuff Keeps us from witnessing that from, seeing that no, I, this ego, this Annie Carpenter, this Kia Miller, I am not that, and it is there.
And here's the ways I cover up. Here's the ways I avoid knowing that truth. Here's the way it scares me. all the different distractions. And, so for me at the end of the day, it's the simplest things that get me back. Not the complex things. And you know how I love complex things. been there, done that. But these days, it's the simple that drops me where I want to get to.
[00:42:14] Kia Miller: And when you meet something that's got a bit more of a fiery or agitating nature to it, when you meet something like that from within yourself, say in a process of whitening, what's your process to move? through it, beyond it, be with it.
[00:42:34] Annie Carpenter: If it's I'm discovering it already there inside of me, I will often do, I don't know if you remember this, but I studied the Feldenkrais technique years and years ago when I was in college. and the simple somatic experiencing kind of thing. I will often just lie on my back and do some simple, it's pulsing, it's a rock, and if you get the right approach in the moment, then the rocking, I think, takes your heart rate back to what it should be.
It's like being by the ocean when the ocean isn't crashing waves, but when it's a quiet wave, that pulse. And then I'll find my breath getting there. And if I feel like I need to move, I'll focus drishti more than the breath. effort in the body, and then a little bit of lengthening of the exhales and that usually gets me there.
[00:43:29] Kia Miller: That's great because I feel I feel like, thank you for sharing that, I feel like when we, can build the level of self trust that there's not much that the mind could throw at us that would, that we can't handle. to me at least, when I, accessed that place within me, my whole experience of life shifted.
It matured, the level of confidence that I felt just in, in, self, the level of comfort I felt, the, anxiety that I carry, a learned anxiety just subsides and there's just that feeling like, Oh, it, I can handle whatever comes up. I've got it. I've got it.
[00:44:20] Annie Carpenter: Yeah, I think we're talking about resilience.
and that's the word people use these days. And a hundred percent, if you know both what it takes when you're really jacked up for whatever, the reasons are, how to come back, but also when you're really down and whether some people anxiety makes them go down, other people jacks them up or a fear to depression, an illness, a grief, and knowing how to.
when the time is right, bring yourself back up without. Knowing when the time is right. that's a big key, isn't it? I think both of those things. Evolving, I say evolving resilience because what I need, in my 60s is quite different from what I needed in my 40s and 20s, clearly.
but yeah, why, can't we see the yoga practice as the toolbox in which all the tools for uplifting, awakening, calming, grounding, because we really do have all those tools and we just call it yoga.
[00:45:29] Kia Miller: I love it. Yes, exactly. We have all those tools. And, and it's important to, to recognize that it's not just another physical practice. It's, it's an entire toolbox for life. It's an
[00:45:43] Annie Carpenter: entire toolbox, a hundred percent. But then that requires a certain type of sensitivity for ourselves, but also those of us who are teachers.
to really sense the energy in the room. And of course, there's going to be a couple who aren't in the sort of general energy, to know whether, oh, wow, okay, they're on an edge. I need to start coming off this edge right now. Or, oh, they're still ready for more, or all the iterations of that. and that's a certain kind of sensitivity that I think most of us don't have, the first couple of years of teaching yoga.That's a skill that's learned.
[00:46:21] Kia Miller: It is, I think actually I learned perhaps more than anything else in the, in the period of time that I spent assisting you in your class. Just the freedom to be able to witness and feel. and see as how people were responding and to see your movement in the room, your sensibility, your capacity to sense into what was happening.
That was a very profound time for me and, I really wish that for all young teachers too, that they get that experience to be with a mentor and actually be able to witness in that way because it's that, the, mirror, mirror neurons, we, set, we learn, what to do.
[00:47:11] Annie Carpenter: A hundred percent. And I, like you were saying earlier, so many people aren't back in studios. and if, possible young teachers and young teacher means to me less than 10 years, if you can follow your teacher in the room, and I don't know if you remember this, but I generally have the first four or five classes.
Don't touch, just sit in the back or wander around the back of the room like you're not there and really observe and then eventually assisting and then getting feedback with your hands on. I, assisted Mati for, gosh, I think nine months. I assisted Chuck Miller for about three months. I assisted Lisa Walford for four months.
it's, it was huge for me as a teacher of, and especially there was, different forms. Ashtangi, Iyengar, Gentle Flow, and it was. I think it, I agree. Kriya, thank you for saying that. I think we all, if at all possible, get in there and assist in the room.
[00:48:09] Kia Miller: Yeah, absolutely. Because I know, a lot of people are doing teacher trainings online these days, and I understand that, that, that allows, a certain freedom, on the economic level for, people.
And it also allows those who wouldn't be able to travel, who have other commitments, to be engaged in a teacher training. And, and yet I always encourage people to find their local studio and to make that connection. with somebody who is, who they feel inspired by, who's teaching there, and to have that hand, to have that experience.Are you doing your trainings in person, or are you doing online, or are you doing a combination of both these days?
[00:49:00] Annie Carpenter: It's still a combination. for the two, I did, I led my first 200 in six or seven years, which was interesting to dive back in. It was so sweet. watching true beginning teachers.
evolve and, get excited and scared. And it was so fun. and I had a few from, a couple from Australia and a couple from Europe and New York, all over, but I required them. We had the last week, we did a week long retreat down in Tulum. So everybody had to have seven days together.
And that was for me to see and be with them, but also for, the community to come together. so some of them for the first three weeks didn't meet. Except for, a tiny tile on the, monitor. but then that last week together. I can't imagine not having, time together in my 200 hour training.
just the idea of looking at, 30 bodies. or even 20 bodies, whatever the number is, doing down dog and going, Oh, they look so different, and really seeing where the energy breaks in a body and where it's overworking and all of those things. I don't think you get that as clearly online.
So yeah, my wish is that, at least some of your practice time as a trainee is in person.
[00:50:27] Kia Miller: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. That's such a. transmission in the group consciousness when you come together. I love that. Wow. So I think maybe last question here, as we're almost at that time, what do you see for yourself as a practitioner these days?
Like what, the space that's lighting you up the most as a practitioner?
[00:50:59] Annie Carpenter: yeah, there's, I've written about this a little bit. I have, I've retired a few poses. I am not retired, but I have retired some poses. I don't know if you remember my practice, Kia, but I was that girl who had to stick her feet behind the head and pick herself up with one arm and all the crazy stuff.
I just loved it. And I'm grateful that I was able to do it in the right years of my life. But, it just, it doesn't serve. My side joints are hypermobile and I really have to contain, Yeah, so some things I don't do headstand anymore. I do unheadstand. so just with the head up off the floor just to protect my, the bones in my neck a little bit.
So I have a few things that I've again, set aside or retired. but I feel like my practice is, in a word, Deeper, more meaningful than it ever has been, even though someone might look at it and go, that's a level one, too. I thought you were advanced. one, one changes one's idea about what advanced means as one carries on in life, doesn't one?
[00:52:12] Kia Miller: Yes.
[00:52:12] Annie Carpenter: And the, ability for me, to feel what's helpful and what's not, and this is something I'm, trying to get across to my advanced trainee students is when we can know quickly in the moment what each pose is meant to bring us, what the, deepest level benefits of this pose is. Then the shape of the pose is incidental, is too strong, but That is certainly not the point.
in a word, why do I do this post? What am I supposed to get from this post? And then one can find the right shape, the right prop, the no props, the, maybe it's better upside down for me today than it is standing. Maybe are you with me? So orientation is not really the point a lot of the time. so the joy for me is remembering why I do the sort of primary, if you will, poses each day and finding the best expression of that pose for me for today.
And so it's new, it's fun, who knew it could be new and fun in one sixty But it is. and some of that finds its way into my teaching, but some of it is just what I need right now. And that's okay. That doesn't feel like I'm, not teaching what I believe in. Because I believe many of my students can do more traditional forms and should do more traditional forms, with some modification.
So my practice is fun. it's, again, I never quite sure what, I'll, how far I'll get and what the focus will be, but, still loving it.
[00:54:07] Annie Carpenter: Can I add one last thing? I'm finding in all the movement I do that on some level I'm bringing mentality of practice. I walk a lot these days. I go birding in the woods or by the sea.
And even that, that's, it's witnessing. It is, it's the, when the, body is safe and strong enough to have a full witnessing, my whole being can witness, can be present to exactly what's happening in this moment, whether that's nature or whether that's me on my mat or on my cushion, that's meaningful, that, to me is living the truth. Because it invites me to witness not just my own truth, even as it evolves, but also the truth of life itself in the world around me. And that I believe is why I do yoga.
[00:55:09] Kia Miller: Wow. Annie, that's just fantastic. So beautifully put. So beautifully put. Oh, thank you so much. Okay, I love you. Yeah, I just want to say that the vitality that you're exuding right now is such a testament to not just the practice of yoga, but your relationship with the practice, that curiosity that you're speaking to that, capacity to really be in the moment with a loving awareness.
It just it so shows through you and through your voice and through just how you hold yourself. And, I think we all need examples of victory in this life. people that we can admire, people that we can hold up as an example of, what life can be. And, and then the glory of having these practices and, a pathway that will help us to get there.
I'm forever grateful for that, and I'm so very grateful to you, because you've been, like, such a formative part of my life. of my journey, of getting me on the path, and, equipping me with the tools to be on the path in the way that I am. thank you.
[00:56:36] Annie Carpenter: Oh, Kia, I love you so much. I love getting news of you from all your students.
I say, just call me Grandma. I love
[00:56:44] Kia Miller: that. I love that so much. Wonderful. Okay, so, thank you, and Thank you. Yeah, much love.
[00:56:59] Annie Carpenter: Much love.
OUTRO
[00:57:06] Derik Mills: Thank you to our entire team behind the scenes at Glo. I'm so grateful for your care and commitment to serving our members around the world. Thank you to our teachers for so beautifully sharing your gifts and talents. I'm also grateful to our lovely community of Glo members. You've supported us since 2008, and because of you, we get to continue to do the work we love.
It's the combined support of our team, our teachers, and our community that grants me the privilege to continue to bring you the Glo Podcast. Thank you to Lee Schneider at Red Cub Agency for production support, and the beautiful music you're hearing now is by Keri Rodriguez and her husband Luke Jacobs.
And remember, take care of yourself because our world needs you. Thank you for coming on this journey with me. You can find the Glo podcast on Spotify, Apple podcasts, or glo. com slash podcast, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. I'm Derik Mills.