In this Glo Podcast episode, guest host Kia Miller welcomes Elena Brower for a heartfelt and inspiring conversation. Together, they explore themes of mindfulness, meditation, and the personal spiritual journeys that have shaped their lives. Elena shares the profound impact of a Zen practice on her life, revealing how it has guided her through moments of tranquility and turmoil, and Kia adds insights from her own experiences with meditation, Kundalini and tantric practices.
Kia Miller and Elena Brower discuss Elena’s continuing journey into her Zen practice, covering her methodology and some key insights that the practice has brought her. They discuss how their spiritual practices have led them to positively embrace imperfection, and steer away from perfectionism.
They discuss the challenges and rewards of meditation, and how to bring a fresh perspective to one’s practice. Elena emphasizes the importance of self-compassion and shares techniques for practicing nonviolent communication, both internally and with others. Kia and Elena reflect on how their practices have evolved over the years and what it means to accept and grow from one’s imperfections. They delve into the role of teaching and how to connect with and inspire students in the ever-evolving journey of spiritual and personal development.
As “Elena says in the interview, “The best celebration of your humanity is to sit and be present with what is."
You’ll come away from the episode with insightful strategies for integrating meditation and mindfulness into daily life.
Key Takeaways for this Episode
00:00 Meet Elena Brower
02:13 Elena’s journey into zen practice
06:04 The simplicity of zen practice
08:41 Letting go and cultivating compassion
12:35 Nonviolent communication and acknowledging humanity
25:04 Dropping negative thoughts
32:46 Embracing imperfection on the spiritual path
36:49 Self-compassion and self-acceptance
40:29 The evolution of Kia and Elena’s personal practices
43:20 Gratitude and love as healing forces
Links:
Kia Miller: Website | Instagram
Elena Brower: Website | Instagram
GLO classes:
This is an automatically-generated transcript.
COLD OPEN
[00:00:00] Elena Brower: There's no method. There are no practices and the instruction is one, just sit. Reality as it is, has plenty to offer. Some days it's really challenging and tense to just sit. Some days it's really, you know, fluid and warm and welcoming. and some days it's just complete quiet. If there were a method, it's sit down, set the timer, bow, and show up for yourself and stay the course.
MUSIC IN
INTRO
[00:00:31] Derik Mills: Hi, I'm Derik Mills. Welcome to the Glo Podcast. This week I am thrilled to welcome back Kia Miller as a co host of the Glo podcast. She interviews Alaina Brower and right away you'll sense their close friendship and caring for each other as they talk about their experiences with meditation and yoga.
They discuss how they bring fresh perspectives to their daily practices, and Elena shares her continuing journey deeper into Zen. You'll come away from their conversation with insightful strategies for integrating meditation and mindfulness into your life every day. I'll let Kia take it from here, and I hope you enjoy her conversation with Elena Brower.
[00:01:22] Kia Miller: Hi everyone! I'm so honored to be a guest host of the globe podcast this week. And I'm so thrilled to be here with Elena Brower. Elena is one of my favorite human beings on the planet. She is a mama, her favorite role. She's a mama. She's a yoga teacher for a very long time.
She's an entrepreneur, very successful business. woman. She's a builder of communities. She's a supporter of human beings in so many different methodologies and formats, whether it's her coaching program or her classes or, the interactions that she has with those she meets along the path. I am just delighted to speak with you, Elena.
[00:02:17] **Elena Brower:**So welcome. Thank you so much, sister. Gosh, it's so
good to see you and be with you today.
[00:02:20] Kia Miller: Oh, you too, and I feel like since I saw you last, your life has taken like a deep dive. I think from what I've known of you, you've had this insatiable curiosity. And you're always doing, you're always investigating some new aspect of life, of consciousness, of the practice of conscious living. And your latest deep dive seems to be in the realm of Buddhist meditations and meditation. And I've been watching you from afar, and I've actually been longing for this very conversation. So
[00:03:03] Elena Brower: how wonderful is that? Yes. I was, I was a definite yes, the moment I was asked like, yes, please give me an album.
[00:03:12] Kia Miller: Oh, I'll take it. Thank you. Thank you. Well, you know, my favorite subject, I think, in life right now, is, the meditative process. It is this thing that for so many years for me was something I knew that I should do. Even the concept of it was so overwhelming.
[00:03:38] Elena Brower: Yeah,
[00:03:38] Kia Miller: that I think I spent 10 years thinking about meditation and being aware that it was definitely going to meet me on my path at some point, but never quite knowing how to get started.
And I feel like that's probably the same for so many people. So I guess, you know, I would ask you first, out of all the methodologies of, you know, meditative processes, What was the spark for you with Zen, with the Zen practice? How did that come about?
[00:04:13] Elena Brower: Thank you so much. I think 20 or so years ago, I met Roshi Joe in Halifax, in New York City, at some shop somewhere.
She was introduced to me and I flagged her in my consciousness because I knew that this was the real deal. I knew that this was a woman who, to whom I wanted to return at some point. And I just had no idea when I lost total track. of her for some years and then I started reading her books. I was fully under the impression that Upaya Zen Center was in San Francisco for some reason.
I came in contact with her in 2017 at Blue Spirit when she and I were both on a Wisdom and Wellness Week together. Still thought she was in San Francisco somehow. Started listening to the podcast at that point, started reading all the Zen books and became kind of a book Buddhist for a number of years.
And then in 2020, when the pandemic happened and we, our family moved seemingly temporarily to Santa Fe, the second day we were here, I found Yupaya on the side of the road, driving to a hike with a friend. And just started weeping. You know how that is, like, it was just really weird. And I knew that that was going to be my place instantly and, started studying with them online because everything had been, closed due to the pandemic.
And I've written a really nice piece about it for Arrow Journal. about practicing virtually and what it means to find a full body resonance with a practice and a community as whole sangha on the interwebs. And it was just, I mean, really surprising and beautiful. And by 2023, March, I had taken the precepts.
Really sort of walking into the stream of the teachings to the best of my ability, you know, still making many mistakes, of course, and, I'm very committed, committed to this path and committed to Roshi as one of my teachers to be sure. And yeah, now I'm a candidate for chaplaincy and working in hospice a lot and working in all, teaching the men who are incarcerated here in the penitentiary of New Mexico.
Just super, super beautiful, satisfying, grounded, work.
[00:06:50] Kia Miller: Yeah. Wow, Elena, that's, that's extraordinary. And right from, the practice appears. There you were all those years, it was in your field, but it wasn't time yet. there it was. And, and, and you were ready.
[00:07:11] Elena Brower: I was just thirsty for it, especially during the pandemic too. And I started setting up my place and I really started sitting and I, I truly like deeply value my time in Zazen. Zazen. in a way that I never expected. It is fully now a retreat to sit. Yeah.
[00:07:33] Kia Miller: Wow. I love that. Describe to me a little bit, you know, you sit like, what are the, what, what is sort of the, the methodology that you follow when you sit?
to enter that, that space you describe as being like a, a retreat or sacred space.
[00:07:56] Elena Brower: Well, there's no method. there are no practices. There's one mudra. There's the cosmic mudra. Right hand is under your left. If you'd like to do it with us now. Right hand is under your left. Both palms are facing up, the hand is cradling the left hand, and the thumbtips are gently touching.
You're bringing together the worldly world, the relative, and the absolute. And the instruction is one. Just sit, reality as it is. has plenty to offer. Some days it's really challenging and tense to just sit. Some days it's really, you know, fluid and warm and welcoming. And some days it's tears and some days it's just complete quiet.
Changes all the time. But the fact of coming back to it day after day and seeing who I am in it and seeing who I can be, That's the, that's the, you know, if there were a method, it's sit down, set the timer, bow,
[00:09:11] Kia Miller: and show up for yourself and stay the course. Oh, it sounds so beautiful. I'm feeling as you're speaking, I'm feeling like I'm like sitting in a fresh, river, you know, that's that fresh water coming out of the earth, that cool coming up out of the earth, cool spring water just flowing over me, through me as you're speaking about your sit.
Just your own
[00:09:37] Elena Brower: internal freshness. And in fact, one of my teachers. Kazuaki Tanahashi sensei, who has translated so many books of, writings of Dogen, who has really changed the face of Western Zen practice. his whole kind of theme of this year, I guess you would say, is freshness. Like, how can you bring freshness to your practice?
How can you come to your practice fresh? and it reminds me, as you're talking about this, of what is so beautiful about Japan, what is written about in haiku about the spring, this sort of capturing this, this moment of birth and then following it as it travels. through whatever might confront it.
[00:10:36] Kia Miller: So beautiful. I just love that, the elemental experience. So as you've been sitting, what have you sensed about yourself that you hadn't, recognized before, or maybe had such an intimate relationship with before? Is there something in particular that's, you know, come forward for you.
[00:11:05] Elena Brower: Thank you. as I listen to the question and I roll it over, I feel like the one thing that comes forward is that I've been really hard on myself for a really long time.
You didn't need to do that anymore. My kid is graduating high school. There's a sense of both relief and also grief. You know that he's leaving, but I'm so happy for him that the happiness and sort of, excitement for him overshadows the grief. But there's still like a pretty significant sadness that I won't have him in my sphere on a daily basis that we have had all this time, 17 years.
yeah. And I would say also that I There's a climate inside of me that is very steady, and I dare say it's existing within each of us. Were we but to sit down and stop the train, and it's hard to do. It's hard if you have small kids. It's hard if you have a very hectic work schedule. It's hard if you're doing two or more jobs.
These are real circumstances. And in that case, the practice is wherever you find yourself, In the moment, how can I be present to this reality as it is right now? How can I, you know, fully accept the fact that this is really hard, or this is really joyful, or this is really not what I thought it was going to be?
You know, all these sort of circumstances are the practice also.
[00:12:57] Kia Miller: Absolutely. I love the, you're bringing it to, you know, that the everyday experience of life, because I feel like most people I speak to, they want the time they want the, they know that there's something to be gotten from the stillness.
I mean, not that this is an extractive, you know, process. We're doing something to get something out of it. We're doing something just to do it, to be it. I really get that. And so to be able to, to just be in your doing of your life, to find the grace of that. for me, that's where the yogic practices have been so powerful because I think I spent the first 20 years of my life, maybe not the first, but maybe those, the second 10 years.
pretty dissociated. And so getting into the body and feeling at home and safe and present. And then being able to use that as the anchor for the now. I think it's much of what I've experienced in your classes. You have a way of drawing one to the space of stillness within the yoga poses. So I feel like that's a part of this picture as well, right?
[00:14:35] Elena Brower: Yeah, I think most of the, you know, there is this tendency that we all have of saying, you know, what can I, what can I get here? What can I learn? What can I take here? I totally resonate with that. And what ends up being true is that every time we sit, we touch into that little stillness, that very steady attitude that also feels very spacious.
And that becomes what we bring to everything. And that's sort of where, you know, if you were to ask, any one of my teachers, it's really about bodhichitta and how do we, how are we acting in alignment? with our bodhisattva nature. How are we, you know, being generous in this moment with our energy and our time and our resources and our understandings?
And that's kind of where, where it lands for me most squarely.
[00:15:35] Kia Miller: Describe the words bodhicitta and bodhisattva. the meaning of those in this context.
[00:15:45] Elena Brower: This element of giving without expectation, of presencing when things are extraordinarily challenging. I'm working with a woman right now who's 60, who is actively designing her death in the coming weeks.
She's in a great deal of pain with a stage four diagnosis that is untreatable and is showing up in a way that is so beautiful. And all I have to give her is this nature of the bodhisattva within me. I, this is all I've got to offer her. The kindness, the care. and the deep well of gratitude that she's even trusting me at all with any part of this.
you know, it, it just has to be about that. It has to be about giving without expectation, about offering the, the, the best of your consciousness,
[00:16:57] Kia Miller: It's so beautiful and I feel like, you know, us as humanity, we all give each other such a bad rap right now because, you know, of the, of what's happening in the world. And yet, over and over again, when I'm traveling, I meet people who really want to do that. They want to give their best in the moment. They want to show up and support people.
I love that you spoke to that. Wow. You know, that's it. If, if, if that, if that is the practice that you do in your life, your ascension or your growth is going to really be a beautiful journey.
I think it's really interesting, Zen, because in the Yoga tradition, in the Tantric tradition, that I'm very much a part of this, this complexity, because in their great study, the Tantric masters, female and male, really explored the nature of consciousness, the nature of life, or maybe even better put, the nature of manifest reality.And so there's names for every facet of, you know, the expression of, of what is ultimately oneness. And it's a complex and beautiful science. And, and then there's this idea of, of Zen and this, you know, blossoming of, of, of heart consciousness. What would you say is at the, at the heart of, of the Zen practice in this context?
So, as you, know,
[00:18:54] Elena Brower: India is where all of this began, many thousands of years ago. There's, that's the source of all of this. And with very deep bows, then Bodhidharma moves to the West and we get to China. We have Dao,
we have Confucianism. I'm really simplifying this. And we have certain teachers who give rise in their studies and their understandings to what is called Chán. Chán is just Diana in Chinese. And Chán, exploring from Japan, come a few seminal teachers to China. who work with Chinese teachers. There's a beautiful feminine component that comes into play from this, you know, seemingly very masculine, vantage point.
And zen becomes a reality in the early, you know, 1000s. 1100s. Even sooner than that, really, Chan is 5, 6, 700. And by the time it gets to Japan and takes on all of these sort of Japanese, flavors and rigor and appreciation and simplicity and care, it becomes Zen. And whether you resonate as I did with the Tantric teachings, the Sri Vidya teachings initially, or with Chinese, Chan, or the Tao, or Confucianism, there's some really great teachers like David Hinton and Andy Ferguson who write about Chan in ways that I really hear.
Or you find Zen through Dogen, who was in the 1200s. He was born in 1200 and ordained at 13, lost his parents, and then, went to China to study, found Rejing, came back to Japan and died when he was 53 a tremendous body of work that is still nourishing all of us now. that's kind of where, that's the trail that one could follow.
And I'm, I'm, I'm sure that I'm screwing at least two statements up here with regards to the years and so forth, but that's my understanding as of right now, limited though it may be. What I find with Zen for myself is at this season of my life, the simplicity of the instruction, the lack really of instruction.
For many months I walked into the Zendo, there's no instruction. You're just to observe carefully and follow. along. the same in Japan itself. there is no real meditation instruction. It's not even called meditation. It's zazen. And it's, it's, your work is really just to let go and drop things off, including your mind, including your thoughts, including all the narratives that you have about what's possible and not possible.
And just be with yourself and learn how to befriend what's here. And for me, this has provided such a comfort in several different real serious transitions of my life. And I, I'm so thankful for this manifestation of the teachings, as thankful as I was in the year 2000 when I took my first philosophy intensive with Douglas, Dr.
Douglas Brooks. who is still teaching today, with whom I still study. Yeah,
[00:23:01] Kia Miller: such a deep well, such a deep well, such a deep reservoir. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. I feel, as you're speaking, I feel that, like, softness and resonance in your being that comes, you know, when you sit with yourself, like the, like the analogy of the, of the pond that's stirred with all the different fluctuations and intensity of, you know, mind, mind, associations and emotions and things that we're hooked into.
And then the clarity as all of that settles. I think what I've noticed a lot, for myself and when I speak to people as well, is the process of learning, I guess we could call it pratipaka bhāvana from the, you know, sutra tradition, the process of, of, of cognizing something that is, you know, negative or potentially hurtful or roots rooted in some level of violence, you know, some thought that one wants to shift away from.
And learning how to do the decoupling process and, and then refocusing in a way that feels nurturing versus being caught. In the, in the angst of whatever is churning, can you share a little bit about what, what does your process look like when you are caught in one of those churnings?
[00:24:34] Elena Brower: I think one of the best, instructions I've received that wasn't really a meditation instruction, but it would come in various different forms and various different Dharma talks.
is to let the contents of the mind sort of drop. And if you are a visual person and you're listening and you need a visual, you can let the thoughts drop into that left hand on the top of your mudra. You can just let them drop away as is said in many of the texts. but it's very much a subtractive process rather than an additive process.
And By dropping away, I mean literally just setting it down. It will be there if it needs to be, and it comes back repeatedly. But for now, I can just set it down. For me, that process has grown into a level of compassion for myself, you know, recognition of my humanity, a level of kindness with myself that I had never known before.
And it's such a simple thing, you know, wow, there's that thought again, oh my goodness. Let it drop. And what's behind it is vast space and nothing to do.
[00:24:34] Kia Miller: Wow. So beautiful. So profound. I just love that. I love that and I feel the space of emptiness opened just through that. Because the reactive mind, the programmed mind, the self righteous self, boom.
You know, the one who wants to be right about something. the doubting mind. Like all these facets can, can be so noisy. in one's mind. And so being able to drop it,
[00:24:34] Elena Brower: just drop it in a kind way, you know, not in like a, you know, that word sometimes I've heard it in some arguments or, you know, drop it, drop it already.
And it's like, no, it's not like that. I just want to be clear with our listener. It's more of like, Allow that to gently settle like sediment for now. Let's see if it's still around when the bell rings. When the end comes of this sitting. Let's see what's there.
[00:24:34] Kia Miller: Oh, I love that distinction. I love it so much.
I love it so much. The gentleness of that. Yes, because I think part of the violence that we've learned is the pushing it away. No, don't want that. Don't want that. And then, and that in itself being like an act of violence. as opposed to the just dropping. Oh, I love that. I mean, that's an, that's an extraordinary practice.
and also
[00:24:34] Elena Brower: just
[00:24:34] Kia Miller: the simplest thing, like, right? Exactly. Exactly. The simplest thing. I've done some long sādhanas in these last couple of years. Really choosing to confront myself. maybe that even now in the languaging, in the space you've opened, it's like, oh really, is it confront myself or is it just allow myself the time to thoroughly be and allow those tendencies that are rooted in self righteousness or ego or past hurt or trauma just to allow those an opportunity to reveal themselves.
And I've had some extraordinary moments of recognizing how much we as human beings create disturbance in the field, in the lives of others. Because we make our business, we make it about somebody else, as opposed to the ownership of weight. I'm really annoyed by this person right now. And my ego is saying, if they would just change, if they would do this, if they would do that, then everything would be okay.
Versus, okay, how do I need to change so that I can let go? of the angst. Can you talk a little about that process, if you ever find that one? Sure. Thank
[00:24:34] Elena Brower: you. I, I think the best way to look at this would be, where my default setting is now just nonviolent communication. So nobody does anything to me. This person doesn't make me feel this way.
Nonviolent communication. The first step is just an observation. When I see that happening, second step of feeling, I feel frustrated, afraid, scared, flummoxed, exasperated, whatever the feeling is. Third step, a need that isn't being met because my need for order, kindness, mutuality, respect, calm is not being met.
And if I'm taking myself through that process, particularly in meditation, if the situation arises and I need to like work something out in my consciousness, the fourth step, instead of some requests that I would make if it were an interaction, it's just how human of me to feel this way. Right now, it's a level of acknowledgement of one's humanity and one's, truth.
It's just how I feel right now. It's very human of me. And upon doing that, I always find the same hilarious, conclusion, which is. Yeah, that's fine. It's passing. Because I have acknowledged myself, which is all I was seeking. Well, from the person or the situation, like I'm, I was just seeking some sort of acknowledgement.
And the truth is, I almost never need somebody else to acknowledge my feelings anymore. It's just a feeling that's passing, like even with James or my kid, it's like, wow, you know, when you said that I felt this way, my need for this was not met. How human of me to feel this way, you know, and I'm saying this all to myself.
And by the time I get all the way to how human of me, the thing has passed us both by. If it's something that returns, I will make a request. Of course, could you possibly say that in a more kind way? Or, I don't know, could we move a little more slowly when the situation arises again? So that both of us feel comfortable.
It's so easy to work with people in this way. And the only thing that would block nonviolent communication with another person is some kind of, mental imbalance, which I totally acknowledge is present in the field often. But with ourselves, it's a very straightforward practice of acknowledging how human we are and how it must feel to have that experience and allow that feeling to sort of drop, pass through however you visualize it, until you're back to a vast and spacious level of care for yourself that will then return and infuse.
Generously, all of the rest of your interactions in that time, that day, whatever it is.
[00:24:34] Kia Miller: Oh my gosh, there's so much that just flowered and opened for me as you were talking. And, so there's many different directions I could go, but the last one that just revealed to me as you were speaking was The tendency that so many on a spiritual path can have to have an image of themselves as needing to be perfect and therefore a denial of the aspects of self that aren't what they deem to be yogic or spiritual or any of those things.
And so the very thing that they're seeking becomes
Can you speak to that a little from your perspective?
[00:24:34] Elena Brower: You know, one thing that is a constant, kind of feature in my awareness as I'm moving through the world, especially now as a candidate for chaplaincy and sort of offering my heart to so many different humans and situations. I mentioned it earlier, where it's just never going to be perfect.
And at some point we get old enough to recognize that that's perfectly fine. And my best effort is perfectly fine. But now everybody has to live their lives. Everybody has a spirit and a, mission and I can't know what it is and I can't control any of it. I can only control my sort of inward climate, my inward attitude toward it.
That's the best I can do.
[00:24:34] Kia Miller: Oh, thank you. Thank you for just that beautiful reflection. It's, yeah, that's, that's it. And I think, I think the humanness of it because, because again, we're in this world where we will project perfection onto somebody else. And then we'll compare ourselves against that idea of perfection, and then we'll hold them in a way that doesn't allow for their humanity and their humanness.
And so I think as, as you know, as a leader to be able to show one's humanity. Fearlessly. Doesn't have to be messy, but just honest.
[00:24:35] Elena Brower: Yeah, I've been on both sides of that equation. Having been the source, been the, projected upon, let's say. Neither is very pleasant, and both are, I think, necessary experiences to have if one is to be, a teacher of anything, facilitator of anything in any way.
just like grief is necessary to walk people through grief. You know, we have to have all of these. This range of experiences in order to be able to serve in a way that will be useful. Mm. Gosh, I love that.
[00:24:35] Kia Miller: The reflection of the wounded healer. Well, if I just have to look at myself and, you know, my desire to serve in the way that I do and how it's rooted in my own life experience, and for you and from for my husband, Tommy, especially. as well, just, you know, the, the depths of one's own personal experience and the capacity to transform and transmute and the level of self authority and just self knowing, maybe better put, that comes with that, that you can share and transmit to others.
Because you've been there and you've done that. Yeah.
[00:24:35] Elena Brower: With regards to practice, I don't think I can hold anything or grasp onto anything. And if Zazen has taught me anything, it's just, you know, practice walking and sitting. So that you can be prepared for that feeling of that little like, ah, that tug at your heart when something feels awry or, out of control, you know, and because you sat or, or did your walking meditation.
or some combination of the two. You know what that tug feels like. It's not unfamiliar. It does not require some sort of giant action or reaction. It requires presence. And that's all we can do.
[00:24:35] Kia Miller: That's all we can do. Absolutely. Yeah. I love, you know, Dr. Bruce Lipton and, Dr. Joe Dispenza and so many of these sort of evolutionary beings.
that speak to the emergent property of consciousness that comes forth when we are allowing ourselves to be present, resourced in the present, present to the miracle of life.
[00:24:35] Elena Brower: And also to the to the horror of so much of it at this juncture or at any juncture in history, you know, but to be able to just be with it without being like swung in a thousand different directions.
That's something you're offering to humanity at large. Your steadiness, you know,
[00:24:35] Kia Miller: that's a real gift. It is. It is. And I've often felt for myself, at least, that that in itself is the greatest act of love that I can do for humanity. Myself and for, you know, the numberless causes that are happening out in the world right now, as somebody who used to lie in front of tanks and, you know, rally outside of, you know, nuclear bomb facilities, I was, I really did come to realize that the highest form of activism for Just for me, highest form of activism is that.
To, to hold that space.
[00:24:35] Elena Brower: A hundred percent. Yeah.
[00:24:35] Kia Miller: Yeah.
[00:24:35] Elena Brower: Yeah. It's a real serious moment. And I think the priority for me is just being a student of my mind, knowing when to let it get very, very quiet and when to, let things go. And what can I do? Like on a very, very local level, very, very close to home, much less interested in, you know, business and success at this point, and much more interested in how I can help people in very small, meaningful, pointed, focused ways.
and be as creative as possible in doing so.
[00:24:35] Kia Miller: I love that, that feels, that feels so nurturing even in the concept of it. I think so often when we want to help we, we jump to the biggest things that inevitably create more stress and disturbance in our field and so the energy that we're engaging in, that thing where we're trying to serve, has this power.
energy of disturbance and angst to it. And so we're adding to the disturbance and angst versus what we really want to do, which is to help and serve. So
[00:24:35] Elena Brower: it would
[00:24:35] Kia Miller: be nice
[00:24:35] Elena Brower: if you could teach a class on this, I love teaching with you, but it would be like a combined The title would be something like clear the field or quiet the field or something like that,
[00:24:35] Kia Miller: you know, I love it.
So nice. I love it.
[00:24:35] Elena Brower: I love it. Remember the Glo studio was there and we could just teach together.
[00:24:35] Kia Miller: I loved that. Those, those moments. Oh my gosh. I have so much, so many fond memories of this, this journey with Glo that we've both been on for so long. Same.
[00:24:35] Elena Brower: Such a good, good time.
[00:24:35] Kia Miller: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely. And, you know, to your note of earlier speaking about tuning to, to zazen, to, to the practices. Through the internet. I have found myself, since COVID 2, just the potency of what comes through, because in that, in the quantum realm where we are all connected, so in that, in that understanding of reality, there being no separation, And it not mattering where somebody is in the world, where the connection is the same.
I mean, it's been profound for me, that feeling. Do you
[00:24:35] Elena Brower: often or ever get, approached? By people who have been taking your classes, who are just thankful for you. Yes. Yes. Because I get approached by people thanking me for you as well. People say, Oh my God, I love your classes so much on Glo. And you know who I practice with also?
It's just you and Kriya. A number of people have said this over the years. Like a significant number of people have said this. It's, it always makes my heart happy to, to hear that we're in the same boat for folks.
[00:24:35] Kia Miller: I love that too. I really do. I just love that. And I'm feeling such a, such a beautiful balance here.
I've been meditating on this myself lately. You know, the potency of the kundalini practices to churn the field. To churn everything, because when you churn something, delightful things are going to arise, or much, you know, and also the, the, the challenging things, you know, much like that Vedic story of churning the milk.
And the poison rising to the surface and Shiva taking that poison into his throat to purify. And then, you know, Saraswati and Lakshmi and all this, all the gems starting to arise from the field. But first it has to be churned. First we must churn. And, so I've been reflecting on that lately. with the, some of the intensity of the Kundalini practices and how much churning happens and, and then the necessity of the quiet.
Yeah. And the still. Yeah. To be able to sort through that which has churned so that it doesn't just settle back down again. Undiscovered.
[00:24:35] Elena Brower: Yeah. Beautiful. Beautifully said. I think, for me, I think there's a place for everything that I've ever touched into and I've touched into all of it. Including Kundalini very actively back in New York and, in your classes.
I think there's space for all of these practices. And at certain seasons of one's life, certain times, certain ages, certain things are more appropriate or less appropriate. And it's nice to constantly be in the discovery of what is serving now, you know?
[00:24:35] Kia Miller: It is, isn't it? And, and I feel like As teachers, we get to, we get to serve up what's delighting us in the moment.
And so it's an ever evolving journey. For sure. What delighted me 10 years ago is different than what delights me now. And, so I, I always feel so honored to be able to share up from that space and to see who that resonates with.
[00:24:35] Elena Brower: That's a very good point. And at every, it's different. It's interesting to see how the students that are practicing with me are, you know, some just mostly similar in age, but some younger, some older.
And we're all just growing up together.
[00:24:35] Kia Miller: Yes.
[00:24:35] Elena Brower: That's all that's happening here. Figuring it out together.
[00:24:35] Kia Miller: Exactly. That's exactly it. I feel like that when I go to yoga conferences now and I run into, you know, people, and it's just so clear. Oh, here we all are. And we're still growing and expanding. And the picture is getting brighter and bigger and there's tragedies and there's losses and there's joys and there's gains.
And here we are as this global community. Yeah.
[00:24:35] Elena Brower: As you say that, I found myself thinking, actually, my picture is not getting bigger. I don't know. I don't even know if it's getting brighter. I think my picture is actually getting smaller. And more and more sort of folding in. I just had to name that.
[00:24:35] Kia Miller: I love that.
And I have to say, I think that if you left me to my own devices, that's pretty much would be it now and forever folding in. Yeah. Yes.
[00:24:35] Elena Brower: It feels like setting a good example for other women too, to have the comfort of one's own heart, mind, space, still learning, still sitting, still giving in some way and still definitely receiving, but very comfortable in
[00:24:35] Kia Miller: here.
That's so beautiful. Thank you, Elena. Thank you so much.
[00:24:35] Elena Brower: I
[00:24:35] Kia Miller: feel, I feel you. I feel that. space that you're holding and it feels really spacious and kind. And I think if there's one thing I'm coming away with, because I can also be hard on myself, is that depth of kindness, self compassion, the spaciousness, being able to just be in that.
It feels so, it's not effortless because there's this level of effort, but there's so much, there's so much grace in it. I almost feel as I'm talking, it's very water based for me today, but just, you know, hanging out there in the, in the turquoise ocean. And you've got all the delights of the ocean swimming around you.
There may be an occasional shock, but you're just hanging out there watching it all and being.
[00:24:35] Elena Brower: Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Allowing yourself to be moved. Yeah. Without moving at all inside. Beautiful. Really nice. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you for all of your wonderful, questions and your very spacious feeling to me as well.
There's a limitlessness to your words and your energy right now that feels really nourishing to me and, full of possibility.
[00:24:35] Kia Miller: So, so beautiful. Thank you. Thank you. And a little shout out and thank you to Derik, too, for holding this space and that we could come together in this way and have this, level of conversation, in this sphere.
I'm so grateful.
[00:24:35] Elena Brower: And may all beings, whoever listens to this benefit from some part of this exchange, and may the near future see the four of us. together, or even the six of us together, Derik and Lisa, maybe even the seven. Yes. Beautiful child. I would love to be able to see you soon, I hope.
[00:24:35] Kia Miller: Yes.
Likewise, Elena. So much love to you. Thank you.
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[00:24:35] Derik Mills: Thank you to our entire team behind the scenes at Glo. I'm so grateful for your care and commitment to serving our members around the world. Thank you to our teachers for so beautifully sharing your gifts and talents. I'm also grateful to our lovely community of Glo members, You've supported us since 2008, and because of you, we get to continue to do the work we love.
It's the combined support of our team, our teachers, and our community that grants me the privilege to continue to bring you the Glo Podcast. Thank you to Lee Schneider at Red Cup Agency for production support, and the beautiful music you're hearing now is by Keri Rodriguez and her husband Luke Jacobs.
And remember, take care of yourself because our world needs you. Thank you for coming on this journey with me. You can find The Glo Podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or glo. com slash podcast, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. I'm Derik Mills.
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