Listen in as guest host and Glo teacher Ivorie Jenkins sits down with Sarah Ezrin, yoga teacher, content creator, mother, and author of The Yoga of Parenting: Ten Yoga-Based Practices to Help You Stay Grounded, Connect with Your Kids, and Be Kind to Yourself.
How can the practice of yoga transform your approach to one of life’s most enduring challenges—parenting? Meet Sarah Ezrin, award-winning author of The Yoga of Parenting: Ten Yoga-Based Practices to Help You Stay Grounded, Connect with Your Kids, and Be Kind to Yourself. She’s a mother, yoga teacher, and freelance writer.
In this week’s interview, with guest host Ivorie Jenkins, a Glo teacher, Sarah Ezrin opens up about her struggles with postpartum depression and anxiety, and how she successfully navigated these challenges using different modalities, including yoga, meditation, and medication. She shares her insights into the concept of Kleshas, the obstacles that life throws at us, and how changing our approach to obstacles can change our lives.
Together, Ivorie and Sarah explore how parenting can be a yoga practice all by itself. They discuss the art of balancing your yoga practice with the challenges of raising children. Stick around till the end to find out about Sarah’s East Coast author tour and also how you can connect with her.
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Sarah Ezrin: I think motherhood and parenthood really brings you back to who you are. I'm shedding all these external layers and being cracked open and revealed again. And that needs to be responded to with kindness and with love and with understanding and with context. I thought it was the yoga going into the parenting, but the more I do this work, I realized, no, it's the other way around. Parenting is informing my yoga.
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INTRODUCTION
Derik Mills: Hi, I'm Derik Mills. Welcome to the Glo Podcast. On our podcast this week, Glo teacher Ivorie Jenkins hosts Sarah Ezrin, a yoga teacher and author who blends her love for yoga and parenting in her debut book, The Yoga of Parenting. Sarah candidly shares how her yoga evolved after becoming a mother from an intense, stronger practice to a more gentle and slow process.
She also discusses her journey with postpartum depression and anxiety and how she successfully navigated through these challenges using different modalities including yoga, meditation, and medication. She provides an insightful view into the concept of the kleshas and the obstacles that life throws at us.
and explores how a change in our approach to challenges can change our quality of life. Together, they both unpack what is meant by yoga in action, and how the yoga of parenting can be a vehicle to continuously know ourselves more deeply. I'm grateful for this conversation and I hope you enjoy Ivorie Jenkins’s interview with Sarah Ezrin.
BEGIN INTERVIEW
Ivorie Jenkins: Namaste, I am Ivorie. Welcome to the Glo podcast. I'm so excited because we have Sarah Ezrin today as our guest. Sarah Ezrin is a freelance writer. She's a well respected yoga teacher, a content creator, a wife, a mother of two boys, ages four and one. Her debut book, The Yoga of Parenting, Ten Yoga Based Practices to Help You Stay Grounded, Connect with Your Kids, and Be Kind to Yourself, is a masterful weaving of yoga philosophy and principles, storytelling, asana, meditation, pranayama, and much more.
Sarah uses these as guideposts throughout the book to explore how the practice of yoga can quite simply help us to become better parents. And she makes the radical claim that the most advanced yoga you could ever do is raising a child. And I could not agree more. Sarah Ezrin, welcome to the Glo Podcast.
Sarah Ezrin: Thank you, Ivorie. I, I wish you wrote the back cover for my book because that was beautiful. That was a great description. I'm like, can I start using that? I will of course quote you. I'm very honored to be here. It's, it's a big deal being here because I remember when Glo first opened its doors. We're just in Santa Monica.
And I was there for one of those first parties and to see where it's come. So thank you to Derik for having me. And then you and I kind of growing up with the same yoga mama. And here we are now, as moms ourselves. So it's yeah. I don't even know if we'd say full circle, right? Is it full, I guess it is, it's full circle or 180 or anyway, but yeah, just very glad to be here.
Ivorie Jenkins: It feels kismet for sure and that yoga mama you're talking about is Annie Carpenter who obviously is The OG of Glo back when it was Yoga Glo. Yeah. So Sarah, you, there was a looming question in my head as I'm reading this book, and even as before I started reading it, which was how in the hell did you manage to write your debut book during a global pandemic with both a baby and a toddler at home, you definitely triggered some of my feelings of inadequacy, and I just need to know how was it actually done?
Sarah Ezrin: Well, let's just say many of the lessons in the book are lessons that I need to continually practice and learn myself, one of which is boundary setting and dealing with my overachiever nature.
So I was actually pregnant. I was pregnant with Jacob. Now, I didn't... know that I was going to be pregnant when I first pitched the book. So I wrote the book proposal and I actually was resistant to trying for number two because I didn't want those two things to conflict. And I was like, I got a book. I got to write a book.
That's going to be my baby. And then I got pregnant the same week I signed my contract. And they were both due in the beginning of April. So I had 10 months to write it and 10 months to gestate the baby. And it was actually a very tough pregnancy. I don't know if you and I were connected during it. I had an HG pregnancy, which is hyperemesis gravidarum.
And which, you know, means you're, you're nauseous and vomiting all day long.
Ivorie Jenkins: Which is the worst case scenario. Just so our listeners know, it really is the worst case scenario.
Sarah Ezrin: And there's other details that come along with that, you know, malnourishment, dehydration, I was hospitalized a couple of times.
But for some magic reason, the mornings, and this is why we shouldn't even call it morning sickness, because, you know, it's all throughout the day depending on the pregnancy. But in the mornings, from 5am until 7. 30am, I felt okay. And somehow that was my writing time and my eldest son is a pretty good sleeper.
So that was my time. I mean, it was, that was my meditation practice. I wasn't doing as much asana as I used to do or even any movement because there were days where I would crawl back into bed and I'd be in bed for the entire day. But so you asked like, you know, how did I get it all done? I mean, my husband really had to pick up some major, major, major slack with our toddler, like where, you know, we were pretty good 50 50 and he, he was the one who had to take him out most of the time because I was home, but I could write.
And, and that was the one thing I, I kind of could do. So somehow was juggling it all. I don't know how it happens. You know, I, I do believe that. Is that it pours through you, and it comes from something bigger. But also, as you mentioned, the book is a compilation of a lot of fantastic interviews and stories.
And because of the pandemic, I think so many of us were hungry for connection. Like, I just wanted to call and talk to everybody I knew, And I was also And I'm also not afraid to reach out to experts who were hungry to talk and be like people I may not have like actually gotten to sit down with under normal circumstances because they could have been like traveling the world, you know, and, or just like not interested in doing some kind of like a book interview, but people, everybody was home.
Everybody wanted to talk. So it actually became a source of connection in a lot of ways too. It was kind of, you know, it, it was all meant to be like, I would never, I wouldn't do it again consciously, but at the same time it was all meant to be.
Ivorie Jenkins: Yeah. You were definitely catching everyone at a, at a good time.
Sarah Ezrin: Yeah. Yeah. Everybody said some of those interviews took two hours with some people. I was like, okay, and I quit. I didn't tell anybody I was pregnant. The first. I'm like very sick and like I do, I finally started telling people I was like, even at six weeks pregnant, I was like, I told Diane Bondi, I'm like, I'm very pregnant, you know?
And which, you know, usually, you know, people don't, don't tend to tell until later, but I was like, I have to tell you if I have to leave or I'm eating. I was eating during a lot of them, but but yeah, it all, it all kind of worked out.
Ivorie Jenkins: You, you were saying that your asana practice. Was different or maybe the Asana practice was non-existent and the Asana practice became more meditative and it became writing.
And that's one of the things I really liked in the book. You give readers permission for their yoga practice to evolve post children. And I'm actually gonna read from the book because I liked it so much. So you say our yoga practice is so much more than the poses. We are practicing yoga every time we remember to take a deep breath during our child's meltdown.
We are practicing yoga every time we are able to calm our nervous system after we've had a scare at the playground or have had it out with our teenager. We are practicing yoga every time we observe our mind wandering from the reality of the present toward some non existent future and are able to re anchor back into the truth of the now.
How did your practice shift after both your first and even after your second?
Sarah Ezrin: So I come from a lineage of very strong yoga. I was a Ashtanga devotee. The only flow teacher I ever took was Annie and You know That was a once a week thing if I was lucky enough to get there that frequently but the rest of the time I was Very, very deep into the Ashtanga world.
And I loved it. And it was great for me at the time, but a lot of the emphasis, even though we say it's not, at least for me, there were some, some qualities to it that it, it ignited parts of me. That were not my best parts of myself, like the obsessive nature and the overachiever and the go go going of it.
It became very pose focused, even though I got stuck on one pose for years and years because you move through postures. I'm sure most of our listeners know, but for, for those that don't it's, it's six memorized sequences that you're taken through. But when I, it was really when I moved up here and started a family, and I mean that more of like moving in with my husband who was then my boyfriend and our dog and slowing my life down and not making my entire life asana centric, that my practice started to change.
And that was when I was like much more willing to skip my morning practice or, Only do 45 minutes and not two hours. And then I, I had a major injury and I had to have like almost reconstruction of my shoulder and that set everything back. So it really started just with the idea of family. It wasn't necessarily the kids themselves, if that makes sense.
It was the opening myself up to living amongst others and having primary relationships. And then of course, when you get pregnant and like your body is. Suddenly, not your own, you know, you literally have another being that you're housing. I tried to continue my practice. I still, you know, I wanted to go and do hard cardio and I still wanted to try and do strong flow classes.
And I, I did, I got pretty far with the first pregnancy, but then I had a birth that was, you know, completely not what I envisioned and really set me back. So coming back to the mat was a much longer recovery there. And then the balance of. How are you coming to the mat when you can I can't even wash my face in the morning?
How am I gonna form time? I'm like trying to keep this thing alive. I don't even know why they sent me home with him I'm I was I had a I mean I'm just gonna say it because I think it needs to be normalized and we need to talk about you know What happens in birth? So I I had a vaginal birth. I had a fourth degree tear so My recovery was really intense and difficult and our pelvic floor is the base of our whole being.
And I was ripped open in so many different ways, metaphorically and physically. So I felt very out of control, very lost, very scattered. And where usually I would go to my, my mat and do something strong and feel strong and feel connected. I would go to my mat and I felt even more out of control and even more scattered.
So I had to change my relationship to when I was coming to the mat and I had to really be okay with All right, a couple cat cows like I remember doing my first twist and you know Just like piece by piece and also full honesty with my first I didn't even want to do yoga I was much happier out walking and this was, and this was like three months before COVID hit because he was born December 2019.
So I was out and about and in the world and I even started going to bar classes because I felt so cracked open. I needed something to integrate me and to hold me back together. And then of course the pandemic hit and, you know, that changed everything. I wasn't teaching but I started, I just was much more interested in those kind of controlled movements.
I started to do more of The Class by Taryn Toomey. I just, my yoga practice wasn't what it used to be. And when I would come to the mat. I just wanted to be held, I didn't want to be worked and you know, I mean, I don't want to like, do I keep going? Cause that's, you know, then you would number two, it just continues to change and change.
But I think the takeaway is that where my mat was the place where I was getting, I almost was beating myself up, let's be honest, and really putting a lot of pressure on myself with creating a family, with having children, it has now become the place where I want to be nourished. And that doesn't look like strong Asana anymore. It looks like lying around.
Ivorie Jenkins: And the reason that you felt disconnected from your practice, is it because you couldn't physically do the, the practice that you were used to?
Sarah Ezrin: Yeah. I mean, there was parts of that. There was like, you know, the physical pain, the, that your body is completely changed. You know, there, I was breastfeeding for a long time. I'm still breastfeeding now with my second, I never stopped breastfeeding. I got pregnant while breastfeeding.
Ivorie Jenkins: So how many years have you been breastfeeding? Is this three years? Almost four years.
Sarah Ezrin: Almost four. It's been about four years of breastfeeding. But when you breastfeed, your body produces relaxin, which is, you know, the hormone that, that loosens all the connective tissue.
So everything feels different. Everything constantly feels, and, and as somebody that has hypermobility, you know, it just feels like that's what felt kind of out of control. It was like, Oh my, my shoulder felt like it was like falling out of its socket and my foot felt like it was never really hitting the ground properly.
So it just, yeah, it was like even the simplest pose down dog. I today, here I am two kids later and I like down dog is one of my most challenging poses right now. And like, Oh my God, like how can I ever get back to an Ashtanga practice if I can't. Do my down dog. And it's just that, that restructuring and that reframing of, you know, first of all, do it against a wall, use a chair, you know, there's many ways, don't do it at all.
Or, you know, let's start to look at where the yoga practice really is. But yeah, it was just this whole new relationship.
Ivorie Jenkins: You've said so many things that I related to. First one is how you came to yoga. I also came to yoga with a strong practice. I was a dancer before and one of the companies that I was dancing with, they had us do Bikram yoga once a week because the director just loved Bikram yoga.
So she was like, this is great. It'll warm you up really well before we start rehearsals. And you either can go at 6am or 9am. So I went and I was like. But I don't want to do yoga. I'm a dancer. I know how to do. I know my body. I don't need yoga to tell me about my body. And I started and I exactly what you were saying about having there's something really strong about that practice.
It's really fiery, right? Lots of tapas. And as a dancer, I was drawn to that, wanted to feel like the more I did, the better I was. Even looking in the mirror, seeing yourself, watching yourself drip, and, you know, all the toxins you think are coming off, the fat that's sweating off all these ideas you have.
And I stuck with that practice for many, many years and it actually wasn't until I met you. And I realized, oh, well, first of all, there's, there's other poses, right? Like, they're the warrior too? I didn't even know. But also just the philosophy of yoga and why we do this. And it doesn't always have to be asana base.
So, I feel you on that. And it's funny. You talk about the fourth degree tear because you kind of brush over that in the book. You just like throw it in there. I had a, a fourth degree tear. My son was in the NICU. And then you go on to something else. And I remember reading the book, like, wait, Sarah, I have several follow up questions here.
Like, we need to talk about your first story. So I'm, I'm glad you, you brought that up. And it sounds also, you talk about the kleshas. There's a chapter where you bring up the kleshas in, in the book. And what I'm hearing in terms of having to reorientate or reframe your practice for yourself after. Life happens is that quality of or that Klesha Asmita, right?
Having to change this, who I am, what is my practice? What is yoga to me? I am a, an Ashtanga Yogi. I am very flexible. I am, I am. And then all of a sudden you're not, and the relationship is different. And so that can be a, a real hurdle to. jump over to reestablish who you are and your relationship to something that's been so intimate for so many years or even decades.
Sarah Ezrin: I mean, I would even argue, like, I think all of them are, are triggered. All the Kleshas get triggered by it. Right. Because it's like, There's the Dvesha of like, Oh, but you know, I don't like this. That like the Raga of like, Oh, but I really like this, but also the Abhinivesha of it, which we know is clinging to bodily life.
But that part of that, of me doing a strong practice is me clinging to my youth and me clinging to my strength and me clinging to my mortality. Because the reality is, is that those were all things that I was doing in my twenties and now at 41, which, you know, is, it's. It's 41. It's not like I'm like, you know, I, I'm already getting targeted on Instagram for, you know, elder, elder stuff.
And I think 41 is very young still, but it is not 21. It's not 21 and my body's not the same. And, and the reality of our. Mortality comes up through our body, you know, and so where are we tuning into and we have to tune into that higher place, right? We have to it's it's it all goes back to a vidya and like this body is just a vessel right now And this is what I can do in it.
And you know, this is this is the best that I'm doing and and that's okay
Ivorie Jenkins: While we're talking about Asana in the book you say that, quote, if you are willing to slow down and look at your stuff, parenthood can provide a powerful lens for us to know ourselves more deeply. And I think this is the same way we get to know ourselves deeply on the mat.
Do you find that your reactions, your triggers... Your behaviors, those that you find on your mat are the same that you're finding in your parenthood journey?
Sarah Ezrin: That's a great question. I haven't been asked that before. I mean, I, you know, obviously I, I've looked at it independently, but to like, to really think about it.
I mean, you say like what you do on your mat is what you do.
Ivorie Jenkins: Right. How you do one thing is how you do everything. Yeah.
Sarah Ezrin: Yeah. But I don't think that's true. True for me anymore. I And i'm not saying i'm enlightened by any means I was like, you know We had a very challenging, out the door this morning getting everybody off to school and I you know get my triggers But yeah, I mean there's like I think there's just a deeper or maybe not, you know I I what I was gonna say is, you know where I get into that kind of competitive Ignore my body.
I don't do that with my kids. It's, and maybe that's, you know what, this is how I'm going to answer it because this is the truth. I thought that my yoga practice was informing my parenting, but it's the other way around my parenting. Is what's informing my yoga practice, because the kinder I am to them, the slower I'm able to be.
So like, let's talk about this morning. My son is starting a new preschool and it was really challenging this morning. He was losing it. And at every turn, everything was wrong. He couldn't wear the shirt he wanted to wear and he couldn't have the cup he wanted. And you know, and, and it's very easy in those moments to let yourself get super reactive and to be like, Oh.
Son: Hello.
Ivorie Jenkins: Hi. This is our son, Asa. Lee, we can definitely decide to or keep or not.
Sarah Ezrin: I say, if you're open to keeping it, you keep it.
Ivorie Jenkins: Here, you can hear. No worries. Say hi. That's Miss Sarah. Hi, Asa. And that's Mr. Lee.
Sarah Ezrin: Hi. How are you?
Son: Good.
Ivorie Jenkins: Nice to meet you. And Ms. Sarah is a yoga teacher too.
Son: Then why are you teaching her? Are you the principal of yoga teachers?
Sarah Ezrin: The principal of yoga teachers? I love that. Asa, how old are you? Five. Five? Awesome. And tomorrow Ms. turns six. Oh, tomorrow? Yeah.
Son: I'm gonna turn six.
Sarah Ezrin: Do you need some presents or stuff?
Ivorie Jenkins: Okay, will you say goodbye?
**Sarah Ezrin:**They're always trying to say their birthdays, their birthday is tomorrow. Okay, bye. Wonderful to meet you.
Son: Bye.
Sarah Ezrin: Bye. Bye. That's, that's exactly it. I mean, that's the yoga of parenting right there. So like you and I were are in a grounded enough place that they're doing something that could be construed as disruptive or annoying right whether it's like coming in during a work call or You know demanding that they wear a shirt that's not available that you and I were really tapping into our yoga practice there of like Feel it.
And I don't mean my reaction to your son because I was like, yay, come in a seven, like with my son this morning, it was the ability to get grounded to feel my feet to recognize the greater context. And in our case, it was that he's starting a new school. Like this is terrifying for him. This is not about the shirt.
And this is not about the cup he needs. Every part of me to be kind and soft and deeply listening and a compared on the yoga mat, right? That is when like, I'm coming to the mat feeling broken and cracked open because I'm transforming into this. This, I don't want to say new person because I think motherhood and parenthood really brings you back to who you are, but I'm shedding all these external layers and being cracked open and revealed again, and that needs to be responded to with kindness and with love and with understanding and with context.
Not like what I was raised with in a lot of cases and not what my internal Dialogue is often on the mat, which is like you're fine get up, you know, I can't what a loser I can't believe you can't do that pose anymore. You call yourself a yoga teacher like that You know, I would never speak to my son that way so why on earth would I treat my body that way on the mat and I think that's been a really informative.
I thought it was the yoga going into the parenting, but the more I do this work, I realized, no, it's the other way around parenting is informing my yoga.
Ivorie Jenkins: I would agree. I would agree in many ways. I and it's also, I think what it's doing for me is the things that I think that I know really well, especially all of the philosophical ideas and principles.
I'm actually having to put them in, into practice. So it becomes yoga in action as opposed to just yoga on my mat. And that's just a lot more difficult when it's in action. It's like you can keep your peace in warrior two because you've been doing warrior two for so long and you know that, right? Yes, it's Annie and she's going to keep you there for two minutes, but I can do this.
I can, I will do this. I've done it before, but trying to keep your piece off the mat as your child enters in and out after you've told them not to, right? That's just a whole, a whole different thing. I think you get into grooves in your practice and you know what's coming. And because there's so many shifts with the kids.
Stage to stage can be wildly different that every day. It's really a new challenge. And at the moment where you get comfortable with the challenge and you're like, all right, I got this. It immediately, I mean, like as soon as the next day. So there's always this constant need to be present and, and to, and, and for the yoga to be actionable.
And I just keep going back to that, like, this is yoga in action. It's not yoga on the mat. It's not yoga on a mountaintop where you're you're enlightened and you're meditating, but it really is with things being thrown at you all the time.
Sarah Ezrin: And, you know, can you do it? Yeah. I mean, it's the householder stage, right?
And, you know, when we think about the four stages of life, there, there are. stages where people do go from the student stage directly into that meditating master on a mountaintop and they bypass trying to be a part of the world and you know, actually having children and generating income and creating, but those that choose the path of householder, which is what all of us are.
It is a very challenging path because there's so many responsibilities and it's, it's not even just keeping the kids alive, but keeping your family afloat, right? Keeping a roof over your head, having food in your refrigerator, you know, it is, we also forget like that the Vedas even talk about that. It's okay to seek, you know, they say the word wealth, right?
Like when you think of the Purusharthas like Artha being wealth, but really it's like, you know, finances and and money so that you can live your dharma so that you can take care of your kids that that you know There's I think there's a common misconception especially in the yoga community of like I can't charge for classes and yoga should just be a donation based and Not even donation based, but you know, why are we charging and how dare we start to like want to create money and wealth?
But when you look at the forums and that are in the Vedas, they talk about having wealth and having financial means, and again, we're not talking wealth like, you know, rolling in it, but like having sustainability. You need that. You need that. I need to be able to put gas in my car to drive to my private.
In order to teach them the yoga and give them that gift. I need to be able to put food in my refrigerator to feed my children and keep them alive as best that I can for those years. And that comes from having to make a living, which comes from having to work, which means you can't just be meditating in the corner all day long as much as you want to, at least in this phase.
And then, you know, as our children get older and as we get older. That's when we start to remove ourselves from society, and that's when we get to start to focus on that. But this stage right now, like, we are all in it. This is all tapas. We are in the gauntlet. All of us that are having any type of caretaking.
I would, you know, I would argue even if you just have a dog or a cat or a plant, you know, if you're living in the world and making a living, you're in it.
Ivorie Jenkins: Yeah, I was really glad to see that you outline the, the Ashramas in the book because it does, it puts it into perspective that And that this is a stage and that it will pass and you will go to a new stage.
Sarah, one of your superpowers, I think, is your vulnerability and your ability to be, be really forthcoming with everything, including the rough patches that come with parenthood. And it's this vulnerability that makes you really relatable. I remember as I was listening, I listened to the book via audio.
The audible because I have kids and I haven't read a book in five years. So as I'm listening, you had, there was a feeling of like, I'm watching a Julia Roberts movie, or I'm listening to an Elizabeth Gilbert audible book. And both of those persons are really relatable. And there's this feeling like I could be them.
They could be me and you have that quality. You have that superpower. And specifically one of the rough patches that you talk about. Or that you reveal in your, your book is that after the birth of your first child, you were diagnosed with postpartum depression and anxiety. And I wanted to know, was there a certain point that you knew that your yoga practice wasn't going to be enough and that you would need to seek professional help to get through this challenge of postpartum depression and anxiety?
Sarah Ezrin: Well, first of all, I mean, even just having my name in the same sentence as Liz Gilbert is like, you know, I'm like very overwhelmed and one just want to say thank you. I mean, she is major goals and just a huge inspiration to many writers and women and human beings in this world. You know, with the postpartum depression and anxiety, so I had mild postpartum depression.
My, what I had was pretty moderate to severe postpartum anxiety, and I didn't know that. I didn't know that. I thought, you know, I've had anxiety my whole life. I have, I go in and out of phases where it's quite strong and I've never been as debilitated as, as it was with my son. I mean, it was to the point of just being frozen, unable to make decisions.
You know, getting out of the house was so challenging. I mean, never mind, like, let's also like put it in the context that like the pandemic happened at the exact same time, right? But there was just a lot, I mean, just constantly feeling in dread, unable to sleep. You know, I would break down in the middle of, of parking lots, you know, and everything was, was just so difficult.
Like it just was so difficult. And even my yoga practice, I mean, even getting to my mat was challenging. So where my mat used to be that safe space. Or at least, you know, it, it, it was, I had thought it was a safe space, you know, a little, now in retrospect, I see I was, I was actually kind of abusing myself, but it still was a safe place, right?
It was, it was still a place I sought out for stillness is that I didn't even have that to go to because getting to my mat, everything, it just agitated everything as well. So I, you know, I, I was very hesitant. I'm on medication. I chose to go on SSRIs. I really didn't want to. I've been on them before. I come from a history and family of mental illness.
I know meds can be helpful. But I am so glad that I did. I mean, it changed everything. It changed everything. And what I realize now is that no one thing is enough. It is not enough to just take medication. It's not enough to just meditate. It's not enough to just do yoga. It's not enough to have a therapist or to have a group of friends or to be in a group therapy setting, whatever your choices are.
We, we get very black and white in our thinking. And we think like one of those things is going to be the magic bullet, but it's not, it has to be all of them. It's a whole toolkit. And so it's not that it's just the meds that was working. It's the meds with my yoga and with my meditation practice and with my support system, all of those things had to happen at once.
And I didn't. Get that until I was willing to try being on meds and and it was I mean it it I I would say it saved me. I mean it saved our marriage We were in a darker place and it helped me be a better mom. It helped me birth this book It helped me birth my second kid. I Am just so much more functional.
I mean that my postpartum experience with the my second is like night and day And day, I mean, like I was actually like getting dressed up three days postpartum, you know, just cause I could. And I, I had that, that energy behind me. So, you know, I, I, yeah, I mean, it wasn't like a specific moment where I was like, okay, the yoga is not working anymore.
I'd always tried multiple modalities, but it really was getting on the meds and then also becoming a member of Al Anon too, which is for children, family and friends of alcoholics. That I realized, oh, it's all of these things. I have to do them all because when I try to skip one of them, then I don't feel very well.
You know, I'm, I am snappier or more anxious or, you know, low. So it's, it really is this toolkit that we have to build for ourselves and everybody's is different. And, and maybe mine will change, right? Like, you know, I don't, I don't think meds are forever and you know, we shall see, but right now that's my, my toolkit is extensive.
It's like double layered.
Ivorie Jenkins: I'm really glad to hear you say this. And the reason I asked the question in that way is because for myself, I often saw the yoga practice as a panacea. It's me helping myself and therefore I can use it in many different ways. But as I've grown as a human being, I also find the same thing that there are so many ways to help yourself.
And really having a, a, a team around you, the results will, will be better. So it's nice to hear you say that you think of it as tools, many tools in your toolkit and that everyone can be your team from your therapist to your yoga teacher, to your Al Anon group, to your group of friends. And that all of this helps us to just navigate this life a little easier.
Sarah Ezrin: I used to think that way too, and I think we were all kind of sold that, you know, I think we were raised in a time and our teachers were taught that this is all you need, right? Show up and all will come, right? Practice, practice, all is coming and that that's all you needed. And I remember like just practicing next to people in, in the rooms and Ashanga shalas that were like, Oh, you know, your hamstring hurts.
Just ignore it. Just keep, keep practicing and it'll heal itself. Don't tell the teacher. And you know, and then. And also being terrified of doing any other kinds of movement modalities. I was terrified to lift weights. I was terrified to try any kind of like cardio or spinning or any of those things. And I just, you know, as the body is often our entryway for a lot of people.
And that was at least my entryway of like, when I started to open myself up to trying more things and doing more things, I realized, Oh, it's, it's like this in a much. bigger picture too. Again, it goes back to that very kind of black and white thinking, which may also just be with youth. Cause that's kind of how we look at the world when we're younger, but realizing like, no, it is, it's not just this and this it's yes.
And yes. And yes. And yes.
Ivorie Jenkins: If I may, you brought up your family of origin, and I, I wanted to rewind to Sarah as a, a young girl. So, you say, you allude to it a little bit in the book, and I think I've heard some other interviews of you where you talk about your childhood and you describe it as being tumultuous, and you also mention in the book that you had a really highly sensitive nervous system, and Like you just said, you had anxiety growing up as a child, and you even had a therapist as a young girl, and if I'm correct, your therapist was who introduced you to meditation?
Sarah Ezrin: It was, yeah, I, I, it was my second psychiatrist yeah, because I had actually, at eight years old, I was misdiagnosed as having bipolar disorder, and I was put on a slew of medication, which is also why. I'm, I understand people's hesitation and I was put on all the wrong stuff. And it was a couple of years later when I was able to advocate for myself and we found a doctor that was appropriate.
She was the one that got me off the medication and started to teach me meditation instead, which was amazing.
Ivorie Jenkins: She was an angel along your path, it sounds like. And then I can't not mention your dad, so you are the daughter of a famous music producer. His name is Bob Ezrin, and he's produced just some of the coolest names in, in rock and roll from Pink Floyd, Aerosmith, Alice Cooper.
Sarah Ezrin: Not Aerosmith.
Ivorie Jenkins: Not Aerosmith. Okay, that, not Aerosmith, no. That, that page that I, I, went, that website that I went to was wrong. But, Kiss?
Sarah Ezrin: Kiss, yeah. Yes,
Ivorie Jenkins: Alice Cooper, Aerosmith. Lou Reed.
Sarah Ezrin: Not, not Aerosmith.
Ivorie Jenkins: Lou Reed.
Sarah Ezrin: Yes, that was another one.
Ivorie Jenkins: So what was it like being the daughter of Bob Ezrin as someone who's really highly sensitive, but you've got these— And I'm not sure if you're going to concerts as a young girl, maybe not, but still the, the element of this lifestyle is in the house with you. So how did, how did you guys square that away or how did you square that away?
Sarah Ezrin: Oh, I was definitely, I was going to rock concerts at a very young age. You know, I, We used to joke because there was this mirror ball that came up during the Pink Floyd shows and this was during, I think, Momentary Lapse of Reason was the tour and that it was my mirror ball, right?
And it was I didn't really know what I was experiencing. I just knew that, like, when I was in those settings, I would get really hyper. I would be... very overwhelmed. Things were loud and bright and shiny. And my response as a kid was to like, you know, my, my light almost started to like, it's like when you plug something into a power source, that's too strong.
And it's like flickering, right? And I didn't really know that that's, that it was a sensitive nervous system. I couldn't, I couldn't really name that until much later you know, there was something very thrilling about it. It was a lot of kind of hurry up and wait because my dad would be, you know, in town and everything would be really exciting and we'd be at the studio and then, you know, we'd be with these people and he'd be working with this one band and they'd be over for family dinner and, you know, and then we'd go to the concerts and then we'd go to their house and then my dad would be out of town again and everything would kind of go back to normal.
That that level of quiet and, you know, it contradicted with my mom who was deep in her alcoholism at the time and very kind of like, you know, low, lower, lower energy, British descent. So there was this undercurrent of like silence and quiet in the household. And it was just those. Two very very different kinds of energy juxtaposed together.
And I couldn't really figure out where I fit ever. Right. Like when, when it was like just mom and me and she loved me and like, you know, I mean, but there was, I, I, I always want to, you know, there was.
And they, a lot, a lot of them did a lot of work around recovery. You know, my mum got sober when I was 16, but in, in her heavier drinking days when it was just me and her in the house or one of my siblings. I, my energy was too loud and too bright and too much. And then when I'd be with dad in, in a setting that was loud and bright, and I was trying to match that.
I mean, basically my energy was always too big and either setting, but what I realized is that what I needed to was I needed my own. Quiet and grounding and, and, you know, trying to find that, that sense of regulation. But you know, it's, I don't like going to concerts now. I mean, I, at all. And I know like, yeah.
And like, I feel bad because my husband loves them. And I just like, I cannot, I cannot deal. I think I went to Lady Gaga pregnant. Yeah, I just, it's too much. It's too many people. I, it's like, I, I just would much rather be home and listening, listening to the music on, on my end. I don't know. I don't know if it's because I had my fill or I'm just, I just get really overwhelmed in those kinds of settings.
But I don't knock, you know, I like, I want my husband to go encourage him to go. He's a big fish fan. So I'm like, you know, go all five nights that they're here. That's fine. I'm not going to any, you know, and I know myself enough now. And I, I am so grateful for the experiences I had. I mean, I had, I got to meet some incredible people.
I mean, it's. It's, it's really amazing and people that I formed, you know, great relationships with that were big fans of mine. And you know, that part of it was really cool. But the reality is, is like, it was rock and roll in the 80s. And, and there was a lot of drugs going on and a lot of kind of in and out and up and down.
You know, is somebody going to be angry in the morning, you know, in your family because they were partying the night before and then, and then people are gone for a long period. So it was a lot of like, my dad always says the ground was always moving. And for a little girl that's sensitive, that was really, that part of it was, was really challenging.
Ivorie Jenkins: I'm a firm believer that every experience in our lives, both those that are challenging and those are, that are enjoyable, they add up to be part of the math that is calculated to. Exactly where you are right here in this moment now. And so do you, and you actually talk about this in your book, in the chapter on tapas, right?
Where you have us really reframe. the challenges that are in our lives reframing them to be gifts. And there's a, a writing exercise that goes along with that, where we name the challenge. And then we also named the gift that was given to us from that challenge, which was really beautiful. Do you think that your book would still be here if you hadn't experienced the tumult in your childhood, or Could you have forgone the tumult and you still think you could have pumped the book out?
Sarah Ezrin: Okay, so there is Glennon Doyle, I have to give this to Glennon Doyle because it was on her podcast, I don't even remember the guest she had, but the very first question she asked the person is, she says, did you have a normal childhood or are you funny?
And I can't remember who she was interviewing, but it's like, I wouldn't trade a single second of anything in for any reason. Because exactly like you said, every single thing leads us up to this moment. And it is often those most challenging moments. My family now, you know, Pretty much everybody's sober.
I mean, some of us are just not in the program. Like I I'll drink wine and I haven't, you know, and other brothers that drink a little bit, but the people that were abusers or the people that were deep in their alcoholism are all sober. Everybody is the closest they've ever been. The repairs and the connections and the finding their truths and the relationships that are formed.
My dad's remarried to my step mom and you know, they have an amazing relationship. It's like, You know, it had to happen that way we could have gone down the path of, you know, where you're Like just going through the motions and kind of paint by numbering your life Or you start to color outside the lines and it looks like it's a huge mess and maybe in that moment It's it feels out of control.
But then when you're able to stand back in retrospect, you realize whoa This was actually the masterpiece. I had to break out of These confinements and these constraints so I would not trade Second of any, any moment of my life.
Ivorie Jenkins: I'm really glad to hear that. And here we are. Here we are. So Sarah, you've been trained by some really wonderful teachers and two of them.
One, we already mentioned at the top of the podcast, which was Annie Carpenter, who was one of the OGs of Glo. And then also Maty Ezraty who was a prominent leader in yoga in the US and opened YogaWorks and also their teacher training, which has trained some of the most phenomenal teachers, yourself included was a student of, of the YogaWorks TT.
And she passed away in 2019, just so our listeners, listeners know. And she really left a profound hole, I think, in the hearts of the, the yoga community here in the West. You reveal in your book. that your tendencies as a student and as a human as well are to be very fast paced, restless and addictive personality.
You do things full out, not one foot in or out, but both feet in and kind of the quintessential vata dosha and you do a whole chapter on Ayurveda and the doshas, which is really nice. But what I'm asking this, or I'm saying this because I want to know how Did your teachers and specifically Annie and Maty, how did they see you?
How did they slow you down? And I'm asking this also because I know that there's teachers who are listening to this podcast and we see our students and sometimes we can see them really clearly as to what they may need. But what we have to do as teachers is put the mirror up for them to see that themselves.
And I'm wondering how your teachers did that for you.
Sarah Ezrin: Yeah. So I mean, I miss Maty every day. It's like, whoo, she's been coming up recently. And she passed away. It was the summer of 2019 because I was pregnant with Jonah. And I had just missed her in San Francisco or she had just taught in Marin.
I, you know, it's just, that's, it was just a reminder, like if your teacher is in town or they're nearby and you have a chance to go say hi, just. Go, you know, if you can so Maty, I, Maty had already left YogaWorks by the time that I had started teaching there and training there. But she would come back yearly and do intensives and different trainings.
And I was also trained by, by like my teachers were her students. So Sonia Cottle is who was one of my first Ashtanga teachers and she, you know, Sonia Hanlon now. So I had like pieces of Maty. Maty was always mentioned in everything. My, my teacher trainers and then of course, you know, starting to lead the trainings myself.
It's, we were carrying on that lineage, but it started with in 2009, Maty coming for like a one year you know, once a year intensive. And me getting to study under her and I had been moved. I don't even remember what pose I was on, but she was like. No, you got to go way back. She pulled me so far back and on a physical level, what my practice used to look like, kind of like jamming myself into shapes, many binds.
And, you know, which I could do because I was lanky and she was like, absolutely not pulling me back, helping me find the alignment instead of, you know, so much of our Tonga is like five breaths and then you move on. She would keep me in something for 30 breaths, way pulled back. Sometimes with props, you know, she was not not shy about using props, which is, you know, in some of the more traditional Ashtanga rooms is was for a long time, kind of, you know, look down on now, now there's everything's everything goes, but, and, and it just, it got me to be like in the moment, instead of the rushing forward to get to the next thing, which is my makeup and still very much is.
her slowing me down, pulling me back. She stripped my ego a little bit and she got me to really understand that the practice is not about getting up to the pose, right? It is all the transitions in between. How am I moving in between? How am I taking care of myself? And it changed everything. And even though I only got to study with her once or twice a year, sometimes more than that, if I was lucky.
That was, I was able to take that and, and incorporate that and hers became one of the major voices on, on my mat. And similarly, Annie also was always like, what are you doing? Like, Annie's was a little bit of a different style, you know? Annie's was like, Missy, like, what are you doing? Like, why is this? the fastest vinyasa I've ever seen.
And, and Annie challenged me in, you know, obviously just her, her technicality. You, you, you can't be running ahead when you are figuring out how to ground through your big toe while also finding your pinky toe mound and, you know, accessing muscles that I'd never even learned the name of, though I was somehow teaching trainings at the and it just, it was such a deeper dive and, and so much.
Like, you know, she talks about that she has her psychology training, but she doesn't really like, she brings it into her trainings, but in her classes, she, she keeps it kind of, you know, it's much more about the yoga, but her psychology is woven into the yoga, like whether, whether she does, she knows it consciously or not.
And maybe she'll agree or disagree, but, you know, she, she says, we're talking about, you know, doing less, but really, you know, we're doing less in our body, but really it's, Like it's how do you not have to be doing 120 percent how and, and so much of that already is coming from that background of, of being in a home of alcoholics and addicts where I had to do everything.
And I, it was hyper independent and I had to show up fully and I had to be the best because that loudness and that, that was how you were accepted. And, and Annie and Maty really allowed me and my body to slow down, to do much less, to leave space for experience. Leaving space for the experience instead of pushing towards a solution.
Is I mean, and now it's like, this is the only way I can practice when I go to a class that's fast. I'm like, I'm just, I have to, I just, I don't go anywhere. I don't go to any classes. I only go to Annie's. I only take Annie's class because I move at such a snail's pace now, thanks to them. And it's so much more interesting.
And like, I, you know, I don't even care if I ever get to the pose, like just stepping my foot forward and then my neck. make that the practice. So that's, they really slowed me down and I am so grateful to both of them.
Ivorie Jenkins: Do you think that there's room for teachers to teach that way? And I say that thinking about our students, and when I do go to some public classes and I hear teachers give students it's a lot of options.
If you feel like doing this, you could do that. If you feel like doing this and not that. I mean, as a teacher, I think I give a lot of options as well, but the options are more so that the students feel like they are, safe, they are held. We're not pushing them too much. As opposed to teachers like Matti and Annie, who are very specific, and no, you're not going to do that.
Because first of all, that's not what we're doing. And for you, you need to really pull back and they're a little more, I would say a little more, a lot more aggressive than maybe the the climate of, of being a teacher is now, do you understand what I'm asking here? Am I, am I being clear? I think that, I'm kind of dancing around something, but, teaching has changed.
Sarah Ezrin: Teaching has changed. I have changed as a teacher. I was much more when I, I would walk in the room and I, What are you doing? Like you have to do this. This is the pose that we're doing. And I, you know, that was how a lot of our teachers were raised to, it was again, that very black and white. You just do the practice.
Everything comes from the practice. Just, you know, show up, keep doing your warrior two. This is what you need to do. And I think that we are in a place now. Overall, where we realize that everything is much more nuanced. People are individual. There is no universal alignment. I mean, this is part of what makes the YogaWorks method as effective as it is.
And Annie's SmartFlow trainings is that everything's on a spectrum, right? And we're constantly toggling back and forth to find where we are, whether that's like the counteractions in YogaWorks or, you know, Annie talks along what's the, I mean, I'm totally blanking on the word, but it's the same. It is the spectrum.
Thank you. And finding where you're at, but there is no such thing as like, it must be this way or not. But I do think a lot of us. came up like that. We were being taught that way. We were teaching that way ourselves. And I do think some people still kind of hang on to that. I just, I just got off with my pelvic floor PT, and she told me about a class where they told her she couldn't do crow pose with her elbows on the back of her knees.
But like, you know, it must be, the elbows must be in the armpits. But like, how, who can really do that? Right. And, and like, I thought we were beyond that, these kind of absolutist approaches. So I'm very hopeful because what I'm seeing and, and I have to give it up to people like Jivana Heyman, Matthew Sanford, all the people that are leading the accessible yoga community or Jigo Sousa and you know, the adaptable yoga community that are really reminding us that.
That classical pose, what we thought everything needed to be, is one tiny part of the gradations of all of the things that it could be. And we can really open up options. And I, what I like about the options is like, how do you give people options in a way that's empowering, educational? You know, it inspires curiosity as opposed to giving, giving variations where you're just like, Oh, and you can do handstand and then you can handstand and flip into the, this thing.
And then you're giving them all these things that are kind of ego feeding, which is fun and fine too, which is like, please, please don't misunderstand me. But I know for me, what, what, how, how I crave to move these days, how I am enjoying teaching is when we are exploring options and nuances, like, and this is what Annie does best.
It's like, take your feet apart wide, bring your feet closer together. What are you learning for you? We're getting informed and empowered by that very different than the like. How it was classically taught, which is like your feet must be this distance and you must do this thing which I think like a lot of us kind of went through that phase, but thankfully, you know, we're moving. We're all moving away from —
Ivorie Jenkins: — evolving. It's a good thing. Yeah, so this, this will kind of be, we'll, we'll wrap it up here with this because this was my favorite chapter of the book and the, the chapter that really hit home for me was your final chapter and it's entitled the end is also the beginning.
And you skillfully use Shavasana as the anchor pose and you do this in all of the chapters. So for our listeners, there's always an anchor pose that's related to whatever philosophy or yoga principle that she's weaving in. And then whatever technique parenting technique that she's waving in, it's anchored with a pose.
And as we all know, Shavasana is a pose that's meant to acclimate us with this reality of death, the big D and in this chapter, you say to be a parent is to grieve 1000 deaths. And I could not agree more. First, we're grieving this death of our bodies, the death of freedom and autonomy, which I am currently grieving still right now.
And even our relationship with our partners. There's It's a big shift that that goes through. So there's a lot of significant shifts to navigate. And then you have the grief of witnessing this continual shift of our kids as they change from how they were as an infant to how they are as a toddler.
And these shifts continue on. And at the end of the chapter, Sarah, you lead us through this meditation on the cycles of death and rebirth in nature. And I think your idea is that if we can accept these that we see yearly, then maybe it'll be easier for us to accept them as we see them in our children.
And so I do the meditation with you. And I'm fine during the whole nature part. Yes. Summer goes into fall and then fall goes into winter and et cetera, et cetera. And then you, you ask us. To pause and take a breath. And I'm actually gonna to open where it is because I want to remind myself. And yes, you say so.
And now take a few moments to visualize the seasons of your child's life and you go through infancy into them going to their first preschool class and then getting on their first bus ride to graduation to you watching them leave. To go off for their new adventure and possibly never coming back to see you ever again.
Sarah Ezrin: That's very great.
Ivorie Jenkins: And it was at this point that I just burst out into tears. And, and, and I'll say that at this time that I was reading the book, my son was going to, Camp for the first time. So he's five and this is the at five years old. They can start to do more things. And so it was his first time at camp and they were going to go on a field trip all the way out to magic mountain and he was going to be on the bus by himself.
And I just felt like it was him leaving me forever. And I don't really have a question here, Sarah. It's just more of Me wanting you to know how, how moving that was for me and how much work there is to be done around being okay with the changes and knowing that this is just a chapter, it's a long chapter, but it's just a chapter and there will be life, there was life before our children and there will be life after, and that this is really a constant practice of Being able to loosen our grip on the kids. So, thank you for this chapter. Oh,
Sarah Ezrin: I'm, I'm moved by that. And, you know, I, when you're saying it, you're like, he's on the bus going to Magic Mountain. I mean, just this morning, you, we were talking before we hit record of like, what was I doing this morning? Well, like, let's return to my preschooler, right, who was having a very tough time with his first day.
Well, the good news is, at his new school, his neighborhood friends are all there. Which is part of the reason that we moved him, it's much closer. And we get into the school, and he's, at first he's very scared, and he's kind of looking around, and then he saw a friend of his, and he was gone. Like, he instantaneously, I like, I couldn't see him, he had a yellow jacket on, and I literally was like, looking everywhere, and, and it was very, it felt very out of control for me, because All morning, I'd been holding space for him and grounding for him.
And I was the, the, the container. And, and then he was just gone. And, and like, I said, exactly. And, and that's just parenting right there. I mean, that is what it is. It's like, I mean, and that's our practice. That's our yoga practice as well. It's like, we're showing up, we're doing our best. We are fully present.
We are fully there. And then boom, we got to just let it go. And so far, I haven't gotten any emails or calls, my husband's going to go get them because it's a half day, but I, it was, that was everything. It was everything in that moment. And it felt so, I like left there thinking like I'd like left something there, you know, and I had, I'd left that, that piece of my heart.
But yeah, I mean, that is, that is parenting. That is the beauty and the challenge of it. And, and that's really just living in human form. I mean, that's. That's what we do every day. We just see it a lot more readily in our kids because they're morphing physically in front of our eyes. But we're constantly in change, which is why I love nature too.
Ivorie Jenkins: Sarah, is there anything that I didn't ask that you wanted to talk about or share with us?
Sarah Ezrin: No, I just, you know, I, I'm so grateful that you asked me to be on here. I'm so grateful that Asa came in and we had that moment of real life. And whether we end up cutting it or not. We'll keep it. We'll keep it. Yeah, we gotta keep at least part of it.
We gotta keep at least part of it. Because this is the yoga of parenting, right? And, and also like, I just want to tell everybody out there, that's a parent, but like, you're doing a great job, right? You're doing... A great job and the only expert on our kids, yes, we need, we need therapists and we, you know, we may or may not need a therapist, but yes, you need your team and you, you need to refer to people and you need to ask questions.
But the true expert of your children is you and just really trusting in that, trusting in the gut and that you know the answers. You may need advisors, but you know the answers and you're doing great. Thank you. I'll take it. You're doing great, especially. Thank you.
Ivorie Jenkins: Thanks, Sarah. There's a someone I follow on Instagram who at the end of her post, she says you're doing great now go get yourself a snack.
Sarah Ezrin: I love it. That's exactly what I'm
Ivorie Jenkins: gonna go do. I need both of those. Affirmation and to get a snack. So Where can we get your book? Are there upcoming trainings or retreats? What, where do we see you? How do we find you?
Sarah Ezrin: So I'm still on tour. I don't know when we plan to air this but my, I will be on the East Coast September 2023.
So I'll be in New York and... Philly and Montreal. And then I'm going to go visit the Ranch Houston, which is owned by Tamika Caston-Miller and her wife, Lenny. And that's, I'm really excited about that. And then I'm hoping to get back to LA at some point. I mean, I just, I need to come home, you know, I need to come visit my friends more stuff in San Francisco, but just book tour is like, that's the main focus as far as events.
You can always connect to me. I'm always online and I, I like need to not be as often as I am, but I am, I'm always on. And so. Instagram and TikTok or through my website and yeah, the book is available anywhere books are sold, including audible. If you want to listen to it, it's, it's, I've, I'm the one doing the recording.
That was a lot of fun to do. And I just love connecting with everybody. So please, please reach out, connect, send me questions, anything, anything at all. I'm here.
Ivorie Jenkins: Yeah. For all of you listening, Sarah really is an open book and she's so inviting of others to be a part of her journey. So I, I think she really means that when she says, send her your questions and your comments.
Sarah Ezrin: I love it. I, yeah, I mean, I actually, I don't know, like it's, I get uncomfortable being interviewed. I don't know if you know that. Like I have to like, Stop myself from asking you a thousand questions, which is also why I want you to come visit me sometime on the IG and we'll do a live, but I love being asked questions so that I, or I love being able to answer and to be able to ask other people questions so that I can create and, and, you know, discern and get more information. So yeah, please start a dialogue. I'm all about that.
Ivorie Jenkins: Well, thank you so much, Sarah. It was truly a pleasure and I'll see you next time. Thank you. Thanks everyone for listening. Thank you, Yogis.
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Derik Mills: Thank you to our entire team behind the scenes at Glo. I'm so grateful for your care and commitment to serving our members around the world. Thank you to our teachers for so beautifully sharing your gifts and talents. I'm also grateful to our lovely community of Glo members. You've supported us since 2008, and because of you, we get to continue to do the work we love.
It's the combined support of our team, our teachers, and our community that grants me the privilege to continue to bring you the Glo podcast. Thank you to Lee Schneider, Red Cup Agency, for production support. And the beautiful music you're hearing now is by Carrie Rodriguez and her husband, Luke Jacobs.
And remember, take care of yourself, because our world needs you. Thank you for coming on this journey with me. You can find the Glo podcast on Spotify, ApplePodcasts, or glo.com/podcast, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. I'm Derik Mills.
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